Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Enfield Rifles
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Magazine Cut off - 1907 SMLE
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Magazine Cut off - 1907 SMLE

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
Author
Message
Homer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 01 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 4:50am
It’s a lithgow rear sight, serial numbered but not to your rifle. Not surprising and makes no difference, rear sights were often replaced and not numbered or renumbered. As has been said already, your rifle would originally have had volley sights and windage adjustable rear sight, but it is perfectly normal to have evolved into what it is now. Fifty years and two World Wars can have that effect. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
sc-em View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January 02 2018
Location: Cannock UK
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sc-em Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 9:46am
Yes, Chaz, there is a number of sorts on the sights but fairly small and indiscernible. Getting a decent photo was not easy.
 
It is a pity about the lack of volley sights but to all intents and purposes it was just a tool and assembled and reassembled to make it serviceable with no regard to collectors further down the line.
 
Do these numbers actually reflect anything? It will be nice to spend sometime in the hols reading my Enfield book to see what else I can learn,
Back to Top
MarkG View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: November 30 2018
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 10:13am
I have volley sights even though supposedly my rifle is too young to have them installed when built, but they're mostly a historical curiosity these days. Short of a zombie apocalypse, I can't imagine any situation where I'd be shooting at a large group of bad guys 3000 yards away.

Were they ever used in anger by the British? I think the Turks had some success with volley fire from their rifles, causing enough casualties at long range that whoever they were fighting decided to retreat.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 9537
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 1:33pm
The numbers are just a reference, each factory had differing number code & the letter prefixes rotated a~z.
The thing for a shooter is that these were hand fitted to a large extent. So in use you want to keep all the hand fitted bits together, particularly the bolt & receiver as it could be a safety issue.
Collectors like "matching" (bolt & receiver) or "all matching" Bolt, nosecap, rear-sight, receiver barrel & (sometimes) magazine. Un-numbered magazines are fine many weren't numbered, but a mis-matching number is  considered a bad thing.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Homer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 01 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 3:13pm
Barrels were numbered in most cases as well, later WW2 lithgow production and 40’s post war refurbs didn’t. Did any manufacturers of the No1 rifle number the magazine? I’m aware was done sometimes post factory but not aware it was done from new?
Back to Top
Homer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 01 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by sc-em sc-em wrote:

 
 
Do these numbers actually reflect anything? It will be nice to spend sometime in the hols reading my Enfield book to see what else I can learn,

Serial numbers were done to identify a part belonging to a particular rifle. So yes, they reflect a good intact rifle. Could be matching from new or could be matching from a refurb or repair. Collectors like matching because they want good pieces, but they are also realist and understand when something may not be a match. Some rarer items are very hard to acquire completely matching, impossible even so a mismatch might be just as nice. 
But I think not only collectors, shooters or someone who just wants one or two rifles may also be more interested in a matching rifle. 
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 3:34pm
ive got a couple magazine boxes that are numbered but im not at all certain they came from the factory with the marking , 
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 3:56pm
As I understand, the marking of magazines was mainly a Brit post war thing. I am not sure as when or which factory did it. I had a PF series Faz that had a matching factory numbered (electro engraved) mag and bayonet. 

Numbers were certainly applied to mags by unit armourers. 

Not every rifle in service got its mag numbered to the rifle.
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 4:03pm
interesting simon , my PF series both mkI and mk2 do not have the marking 
Back to Top
Homer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 01 2013
Location: Brisbane
Status: Offline
Points: 467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 4:55pm
Yes but I’m referring to No1 rifles. Not aware any makers numbered mags on those. 
But I suppose when you say ‘post war Brit thing’ you could only be referring to the No4.
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 5:42pm
I do believe that I saw a couple of India refurbed No.1 rifles with numbered mags, but generally, yes. No.4 rifles seem to have got the treatment. Some No.5s too. 1950-ish onwards.

Long Lee rifles or carbines are not found with numbered mags either.
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8724
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 6:18pm
i wonder if armorers did that to keep the mag boxes with the rifles ? 
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2018 at 6:47pm
The long Lees and carbines had a captive magazine with chain link so not really a problem of getting them mixed up.

Each mag is hand tweaked to its rifle to feed correctly. Switching out mags, you can get lucky and have the mag work without touching it, but other times the thing just will not feed. 

So it is a good idea to keep a mag with its rifle. Numbering will do that, yes. Just that some numbering looks bloody awful. There are variations. Some on the spine hidden. Some on the floor plate done with a FBH.
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
sc-em View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January 02 2018
Location: Cannock UK
Status: Offline
Points: 94
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sc-em Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2018 at 9:24am
I haven’t actually checked the mag to be honest. Interesting stuff though 
I did find some more number which appear to match. Oddly though one seems to havan ER rather thzn GR. or is it just a bad/ incorrect stamp. If not that would make it post 1953 in parts  
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 9537
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2018 at 12:07pm
What does the royal cypher (crown) look like?
Kings & queens crowns were different shapes.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 586
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2018 at 1:31pm
The ER proof mark is most probably to be from the reign of King Edward VII 1901-1910.

Queen Elizabeth II 1953 onwards is unlikely .

Hence Shamu asking about the shape of the crown on the wrist. That will give a clue whether king or queen
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.