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MK1/2?

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devrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 12:48pm
yes that is the mag he has with the rifle.  guess the serial number won't match then (:   I didn't know it should when I saw the weapon.  the handguard is somewhat loose which according to britrifles is an accuracy problem.  anyone know what I would be looking at to have it fixed?   also, he is asking 400.00 for this rifle.  is that reasonable?  learning, learning.   thanks everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 12:54pm
I HAVE read the thread, a couple of times to make sure I was giving a valid answer.
Let me bring up a couple of points regarding "the Bullet test".

1: It's not completely useless, but mostly useless as a test for bore wear.
Why?
Well bullet shape figures in to it! Different weight, shape or diameter will bias the results. Having a single kept, unfired bullet, used solely as a "muzzle gauge" is the only way to go.

2: The bullet only contacts the muzzle & first few mm of the bore so it tells you nothing about the rest.
It IS useful for checking for "cord worn" muzzles, caused by improper cleaning with a pull-through, but thats IT!

That was what I was saying with regard to using a .308" bullet as a bore gauge in a bore that can vary between a tight 0.3105" & a loose 0.318"! Its not just unreliable & only slightly valid, but complicating it further with a different diameter just mucks the whole thing up to the point of being almost valueless.

Ok, loose handguard. there should be slight UP pressure from the forend (5~7Lbs is the usual quote) but zero contact between the handguard & the barrel (unless it's has some fancy-schmantzy target bedding work done.) As long as it doesn't contact the rear of the sight block (kind of "faking" down pressure from above), its fine.

"Wrong" magazine.
Its not just a question of matching numbers. Numbers indicate the magazine is the exact correct one, hand-fitted to that exact rifle by serial number.

What you have is not just a mis-matched (maybe) or un-numbered magazine,but a slightly different magazine for a non interchangeable earlier model of rifle!
What you have is the one on the RIGHT, look at the rear spines where it engages the magazine latch.
Now what you need is the one on the LEFT (look in the same area) Easy way to tell at a glance is the "ribs on the sides. The one you want they stop short of the bottom.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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devrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 1:39pm
Shamu I do appreciate the info.  I am aware that the bullet test is semi useless but I need to have a plan in place by next week when I see this again (if not sold already) and can see no way to get a real erosion gauge in time.  I do have an old south bend lathe and would consider making one but it's torn apart right now for a restoration.  I am going to grab a mic and see if I have any rod in the ballpark of 
3025  to .3035 (per britrifles) so I'm not sure what else to do.  these flea market vendors go all over the state and I would hate to lose this (unless the barrel is bad of course).

so anyone have any idea what it would cost to have the forend tightened?  I know you can't really know without seeing what is wrong but worst case ballpark.  and is 400.00 decent?  seems ok looking at beat up surplus ones online that you can't even look over.
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devrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 1:40pm
and are you saying that the mag has to be matched to the rifle?  I would think you could use another mag as long as it was for this model but again I know nothing.
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devrep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 1:43pm
oh, it has a bayonet too but I didn't take a photo of it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:


The .303 British bullet is actually .311" diameter. The .303 measurement is the diameter across the lands of the rifling not the across the depth of the grooves.

Welcome to the Forum.


This is why a 303 is actually bigger than a 308 - different measurements. The 303 is across the bore (lands) and the 308 is across the 'grooves' (rifling)
 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 2:12pm
My humble apologies... your comment "7.62 nato is basically .308. 30-06 is likely to small" raised about 40 red flags. Not sure what you meant, but I'm sure you know both those rounds are 7.62. Again, my apologies...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 2:39pm
you are absolutely correct that 7.62 and 30-06 are the same diameter.  senile moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 5:52pm
Shamu posted a good picture of the major difference in magazines. Have a good look at the ribs or grooves on the side of the magazine. That should fit any No4, but the "ears" that hold the rounds in the magazine may need tweaking to feed properly. For me? Nice looking rifle. Furniture rattles a bit? I do too, and I'm not 75 years old. Remove the bolt and shine a light down. If you can see rifling, you probably have a decent shooter once you find the right powder/bullet weight the rifle likes. Probably not a tack driver, but those rifles weren't designed for that. I paid a little more than that for a No4 Mk2 a few years ago in similar condition and couldn't be happier! Shoots better than I can! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2020 at 10:34pm
Looks like a good deal to me; even if you need to get the proper mag later on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:08am
thanks men.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:10am
Sorry guys, storm here took out the power and WIFI since early yesterday AM.  What a mess.

My suggestion of using a .308 bullet as a bore gage is better than nothing.  As I said, the better way is to have a set of bore gages, or pin gages.  If a .308 bullet is completely swallowed up at the muzzle, you have a very worn bore and it will not shoot well.  

As an aside, some have gotten good results shooting .308 bullets in the .303 No. 4 LE!  I think Gossic has tried it.  The early DCRA 7.62 NATO conversions were done with .303 No. 4 barrels.  Good results were obtained when the bore was to the small tolerances, less than .303.  But, there is no real reason to do this when perfectly good .311 and .312 bullets are available.  

The forward handguard position is easily fixed.  It’s the forend that is critical for accurate shooting.  Loosen up the front trigger guard screw and see if the forend moves front to back.  

Nice looking rifle and the price is quite good.  If it had a newish looking 5 groove barrel, I would pay more than $400.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:33am
Judging only by the pictures, here in Canada that rifle would go for $600-700.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 5:48am
Originally posted by devrep devrep wrote:

and are you saying that the mag has to be matched to the rifle?  I would think you could use another mag as long as it was for this model but again I know nothing.

Yes exactly!
But its more than that yours isn't just "non-matching" its the wrong version as well.
Now some were modified, by having the rear spine re-ground, but there are other differences so its a stop gap at best. Individual matching of things like feed lips is frequently needed for reliable feeding (or feeding at all!)
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 7:01am
He should be able to locate a correct No. 4 mag and then fit it to the rifle.   This is pretty easy to do, normally just the front feed lips need a bit of tweaking for the bullet tip to be in the right position for reliable feeding.  

I would avoid the repro mags, with the exception of the new manufacture mags available from the UK (can’t recall the name of the company that makes them).

More important that the bolt serial number matches the rifle.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote devrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2020 at 7:30am
the barrel was pretty dirty and I would like to run a brush thru it so I can see what is going on in there.  I guess my 7.62 brush will work.  and I will bring a small flashlight.  I'm hoping to slap my lathe back together in a few days and try to make a stepped bore gauge, if not the 7.62 round will have to do.

so here's what I need to check per all of your input:

1.  check that bolt serial number matches.  if not forget this rifle.
2.  check barrel for excessive wear and corrosion.  ideally should be .3025  to .3035.  5 groove barrel would be nice.
3.  check forend fit better but it's not a deal breaker.
4.  look at magazine better but it's all he has so not a deal breaker.
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