My first No. 4 Mk 1/2 What is it? |
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KC9AOP
Groupie Joined: October 25 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Posted: November 15 2013 at 1:34pm |
he!!o,
I've just bought my first No. 4 Mk. 1/2 and could use your help identifying it. I can easily see it is a No. 4 Mk.1/2 made in 1942. It went for FTR in 1951. The Armorer stamped it with an "A" so it has some non-interchangeable parts. Past that I am unsure of anything else. I've attached photos of what looks like the significant markings. Since this was a FTR it was repainted. I suspect most of the barrel markings are under the new coat of paint but I really don't know. Hopefully this will be something to go on. Anything you can tell me would be appreciated.
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MaxP
Senior Member Joined: March 21 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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The No4 isn't an SMLE, common misconception ....
I can't help much on the specific markings as the No4 is not my field.... The first pic shows import markings, not military. |
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KC9AOP
Groupie Joined: October 25 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Thanks for the correction. I changed the post title.
Jim
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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The No4 Mk1/2 is a No4 Mk1 that was upgraded during the FTR with the No4 Mk2 trigger. The new trigger assembly was brazed on the receiver. Depending on the need the upgraded No4s may have gotten a new barrel and/or wood as well. A No4 Mk 1/3 is an upgraded No4 Mk1* btw. These upgrades tend to be in good condition, or atleast the ones I have come accross. I have a Faz No4 1/2 that is one of my best shooters.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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a FTR was done in the 51 date , not certain if that was the change to mk2 or if it had another after that , the mk2 FTRs were done by FAZ , your rifle was built in a british factory but im not at all certain by whats posted which one , some markings may have been done by the point of use country ,
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KC9AOP
Groupie Joined: October 25 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Is there something else that will help identify this rifle? I have more photos but did not want to flood the thread with useless pics.
The photos I have are kind of hard to see. There are marks that I can't decypher. I think the 51 is a makers mark along with the C on the plate where the butt stock attaches. There are more marks on the wood. The one in the photo may mean the stock was in South Africa at some point. There is clearly an arrow right below the trigger guard and I believe that means it was sold out of the military. There is nothing on the barrel near the bayonet lug. The front site has numbers on it. The micrometer has a few marks as well. The bolt has a bunch of marks but if the rifle was refurbished I don't know if it has the original bolt anyway. I'll be happy to post pics of whatever helps. Just let me know. Jim |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Online Points: 17605 |
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It was imported By Century after 1968. That's the "CAI ST a VT" stamp, before '68 it would just have had "ENGLAND' stamped.
Might the "F51" be a 1951 Fazakerly barrel? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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KC9AOP
Groupie Joined: October 25 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I just discovered that the cocking piece is stamped "DP". That's the only DP I can find on entire gun. I've ordered a replacement piece but is it really necessary? I know the DP is not necessarily a sign of a defective part (I know DP = Drill Purposes not defective part) but I want to be careful. This is a full FTR so I'm a bit confused Would an armorer use a DP part in an FTR?
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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It may not have been a armorer or atleast a British Military armorer. Someone somewhere in the rifle's history may have swapped out the original which may have had some surface defects with one from a DP rifle or a pile of parts that looked better. I used a "DP" marked band on a sporterised rifle I restored a few years ago.
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Lithgow
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Does the bolt and action serial numbers match? Make sure it's not a DP bolt.
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Bear43
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You did the right thing to replace the cocking piece. When a part is marked DP you have no idea why it was marked such and parts that are pressure bearing or make it go boom cannot be trusted. Bands and wood are fine to use, but I too would replace that cocking piece with a good one. And no, no armourer would have replaced a defective part with a DP part. Once a part was DP'd it was essentially a death sentence for said part as far as the military was concerned.
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paddyofurniture
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In my "stores box" I still have a few trigger guards left I think with the trigger still mounted.
What was a better trigger the original or the changed / up grade? |
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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i did not think to check the serial number but ... the 10900 [if im reading it right] is the range assigned to maltby , assuming it was not changed , which is unlikely save the "A" sufix being added ,
they used the prefix A-Z and AA - BZ ,
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Jon287
Senior Member Joined: December 19 2013 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Please be aware that I don't own a No.4 Mk2, it is just what I have gathered from reading. If I am wrong , someone correct me! |
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Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their planet!!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Online Points: 17605 |
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Correct!
The Mk1 had the trigger attached to the actual guard. The change with the Mk2 was to braze a "hanger", (read piece of steel) to the front of the receiver ring & attach the trigger to that. There was no attachment for the trigger on the trigger guard of Mk2's. This is the "hanger" & trigger of a Mk2. The forend of the Mk2 has a cut for the "hanger" & a cross bolt fastening it to the "hanger" by screw tension/friction. Unlike the Mk1's metal riveted in strap. Supposedly the change made an improvement to the consistency of trigger pull as the forend wood swelling & shrinking by moisture absorption effecting trigger feel was removed. Having had both I really can't tell the difference, but my wood is probably pampered compared to trench warfare life! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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KC9AOP
Groupie Joined: October 25 2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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The cocking piece is the only thing marked DP on the bolt. Could the whole bolt be DP if just the cocking piece is marked?
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