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Need Help identification on this Bayonet |
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A square 10 
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Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 13437 |
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 Posted: December 03 2022 at 6:33pm |
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its one of the areas i spent a lot of time on , i owned a lot of the rifles both P14 and M17 at one time , way more than i had when i came here [near 30] as well as the bayonets , i had sold most off keeping only the few ive posted here because they spoke to me , ill not pretend to be an expert but i did know a lot of these and only share what i know to be true as there is a lot about these out there that is net falsehoods , like the three american companies sharing parts - totally false - they each had contracts to fill for both the brits and the US and some problems existed , mostly for winchester ,
but i digress , the P13 is the topic and only the two made these , after the P13 rifle was abandoned the brit contracts to their domestic bayo mfgrs fell away in preference to the commonwealth production demands for the P07
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terrylee
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Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Posted: December 06 2022 at 1:21am |
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An interesting progression in the P13/M17 bayonet markings: 1) British, P13 2) British cancelled, US, P13 3) American, P13 (Help!) 4) American, M17   |
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Sarge
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Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Posted: December 06 2022 at 7:42am |
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'terrylee'...
I don't think your fully aware of the various steps during the progression from P13 to M17, and as such,,, are getting yourself a tad confused with what you refer to as the--> American P13. Let me take you through the full progression. Listed below are the various stages from P13 to M17 ( mistamp )... 1) Enfield Trials Pattern-1913 bayonet ( two production dates ). 2) Pattern-1913. 3) Vickers Production Pattern-1913. 4) Early production Model-1917. 5) Cancelled British inspector stampings ( two methods = Cross-Hatched & Peening ). 6) Fully U.S. Arsenal stamped Pattern=1913. 7) Standard production Model-1917 ( with Clearence Hole in pommel ). 8) Standard production Model-1917 ( mistamped as 1918 ). Let's look at items 5) & 6) from the listing above. Hopefully, aster reading this, all will be clearer, and the pieces will fall into place. Cancelled British Inspector Stamps - Cross-Hatching.  When America entered WW1 in April of 1917, it soon became apparent that there was a desperate shortage of rifles and bayonets. The cancelled British P14 Rifle and P13 Bayonet contracts left the USA with approx 250,000 Bayonets waiting for a new home. The P13 Bayonets, after purchase from The UK, were added to the U.S. Arsenal by cancelling out the British Inspector Stamps, then adding the letters U.S. ( as illustrated above ). There was also a second method employed which achieved the same aim = Peening. Cancelled British Inspector Stamps - Peening.  Peening served the same purpose as Cross-hatching. Along with the added 'U.S.', it served to show that the item thus stamped was fully a U.S. Military item. British Pattern-1913 - Full U.S, Arsenal Stamped. In order to show American ownership of P13 examples which had not Been through the Bristish Inspection System... another method was needed. The method used, was the same as used on standard production Model-1917 bayonets.  *NOTE* The methods illustrated / described above, apply only to Remington produced examples. |
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This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Sarge
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Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Posted: December 06 2022 at 8:07am |
'A square 10' I think this is what you were trying to say.   |
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This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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terrylee
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Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Posted: December 06 2022 at 10:38am |
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Sarge, I don't think you understood the purpose of my post. I was merely referring to the markings of the bayonets in question! I find the one with an original US crest plus the 13 rather out of place! |
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Sarge
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Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Posted: December 06 2022 at 12:03pm |
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'terrylee'...
Righto! I presume your referring to the P13 with full U.S. Arsenal markings.... the last item I illustrate. The ( HELP! ) indicator after the 3rd item on your list gave some idea of what you were after. I merely placed that portion into context. As I've shown + explained... it's not out-of-place, although I can fully see how you see it that way. Look at it as a natural progression.... the final step inline... from P13 to M17.
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This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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A square 10 wrote: