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Sidneyw View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 27 2019 at 9:59am
Greetings Everyone, 
just signed up new member, own a No4 Mk1 for more than 25 years. Shot it once and put in storage until 10 days ago.  I have other long guns Lever, AR, AK, M1A and few shotguns for upland birds.

My Enfield does not have many markings like others I have seen.  No4 Mk1 is quite visible; BFXXXX stamp on the bolt handle; T25xxx (serial number I presume) and that's about it; it is a two grove.

Took it to an indoor range nearby; 25 yds shooting S&B 174 gr FMJ and it was not bad at all after all these years in storage.  I just wanted to make sure it is on paper before I take it to 100 or 200 yds outdoor range.  

Plan on reloading (on and off I have been reloading since late 70's). Read about using both 7.62x39 projectile and powder into 303 case for plinking  I really like to hear more.  

Regards,
Sidney
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2019 at 10:35am
Sounds like a Savage or Long Branch made gun?
It sounds "scrubbed", which usually indicates an Indian refurbish at some point.
Pics would be a big help in getting a positive iD.
If you reload avoid boat tails till you check it out, some 2 groove don't like boat tails
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2019 at 12:43pm
Welcome from Brandon, Manitoba, Canada!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2019 at 4:43pm
Thanks for the comeback and welcome.

The handload will just be for plinking fun. I don't have much expectation. The reduced light load could be good to teach my 10 years old grandson. Took me awhile to figure out the photo uploads.
The target was 25 yards out; the extraction cycles were smooth.  First 3 rounds off-hand, after that I used a rest; lighting in indoor range is not too good as you know. I have yet to get used to the sight picture.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2019 at 9:18pm
Welcome from Texas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2019 at 8:59am
Howdy from Phoenix Arizona. 
The serial number on the rifle has it being made at the Fazackerly plant, 1944/45. The bolt,while not matched to the rifle,was made at the Fazackerly plant as well. It was originally in a No5Mk1,(Jungle Carbine). The 300/600 yard  L flipsight is very sufficient for your plinking intentions. The two groove barrel came off of either a Canadian Long Branch or a Stevens Savage No4Mk1*.  Is there any FTR Mark's on the receiver in front of or behind the No4Mk1 stamp?  Is the rifle complete with full furniture?  Do you have any background history of the rifle when it was passed to you? Some fundamentals here would be for you to have the headspace checked,along with having the bolt inspected for equal engagement on both rear locking lugs into the receiver itself by a competent gunsmith, knowledgeable with the Enfield rifles. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2019 at 9:38am
Hi Goosic,
Thanks for your reply.
1) The T-29235 marking is also on the barrel but it was located at the bottom.
2) No FTR marks found.
3) It came complete with full furniture.
4) No idea of history (picked it up more than 25 years ago for $60)

I have had concern on headspace, but the 15 rounds I fired last week did not have extraction issue, and the spent cases seem to look ok.  I disassembled it last night; it was covered with sort of spray paint done years ago from barrel down to the receiver.  

Edited:

I looked around this morning and found this http://www.enfieldcollector.com/serials.html
Quote  No.4 and No.5 rifle serial numbers can readily identify manufacturers. British No.4 rifles have five numbers, usually after one or two letter prefixes. The same letter prefix(es) were used by Maltby, Fazakerley & BSA Shirley, A to Z then AA, AB to AZ, then BA to BZ, CA to CZ &c. Maltby rifle serial numbers commence with a number '1', Fazakerley with a '2' and Shirley with a '3', e.g. 1xxxx for Maltby, 2xxxx for Fazakerley and for Shirley, 3xxxx, after the letter prefix. Late Shirley numbers then supposedly ran A4000 to A7999 and with PS prefixes at the very end of production. Post-war Fazakerley No.4 rifles had PF letter prefixes.

It would seem as you indicated; but no certain if it was No5 jungle.  I'll be getting the neck size die next week and load up some reduced light weight to try out. Still, the 2 groove puzzles me.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2019 at 10:49am
The two groove barrel, being that it has the same serial number as the receiver, would indicate that it was assembled from the factory that way. Fairly rare but not uncommon.  The serial number on the bolt handle does indicate that the bolt assembly itself was,at one point in time,fitted to a No5Mk1 rifle,mid to late 1947. 
The paint,is it of a oil based green hue?

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Feels and looks oil based in black.  I removed most of it using brake cleaning fluid, and coated the surface with engine oil for now.  I did use the bullet insect to barrel test for wear before I shot it, and it looked very good. 

Thanks,
Sidney
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42rocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2019 at 10:09pm
Welcome 
 
Later 42rocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2019 at 11:44am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Sounds like a Savage or Long Branch made gun?
It sounds "scrubbed", which usually indicates an Indian refurbish at some point.
Pics would be a big help in getting a positive iD.
If you reload avoid boat tails till you check it out, some 2 groove don't like boat tails

I get the boat tail, can't afford the price.  I only use this for plinking alongside Henry 357/38, and AR in 22LR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2019 at 5:44am
Sidney, for cheap plinking try 7.62x39 ammo broken down for the bullet and powder, it is the way to go!

Works like a charm for plinking and other than casting your own bullets from scrap lead, it is one of the cheapest ways to reload for the 303.

I use an inertia hammer to pop the bullets out after giving them a small push in a seating die to break the sealant. I use the powder charge as is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2019 at 7:07am
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

Sidney, for cheap plinking try 7.62x39 ammo broken down for the bullet and powder, it is the way to go!

Works like a charm for plinking and other than casting your own bullets from scrap lead, it is one of the cheapest ways to reload for the 303.

I use an inertia hammer to pop the bullets out after giving them a small push in a seating die to break the sealant. I use the powder charge as is.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.  Only concern is powder from 7.62x39 is only ~60% of case capacity in 303.  If that works, I have lots of 7.62x39 from my AK.  I am also planning on using Berry plated 125 grs bullets, and 12 grs of Unique  powder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2019 at 1:58pm
Check 10 of the pulled 762x39, powder charge average around 25 grains (whatever it is).

COAL set to 2.89".  The Lee neck sizing does not seem to form the neck tight enough, might have to crimp tighter.  I hope the reduced charge presents no issue on pressure.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2019 at 2:53pm
I am not sure as to the problems associated with air space in smokeless cartridges.

I have never had any issues with just dumping the 7.62 powder load directly into the 303 case.

What is your concern? Somebody here will have answers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidneyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2019 at 3:14pm
Load density -

Low powder charge can cause secondary detonation. I reload 357 mag and 300 Blk near max using W296 or H110.


It is powder dependence. That's why I asked if you have any issue.

Edited

I use the Hodgdon recommended Max load * 60% rule using from Lyman handbook 48th Edition H4895 sample of 43.5 gr max for 125 gr projectile: 43.5 * 0.6 = 26.1gr.

The average pulls 762x39 unknown powder =/25 gr.  So, it is short of 1.1 gr; does it matter? I don't know.  I loaded up 10 to try.  

BTW, I was surprised to see the Russian ammo from early 90 hollow point projectiles are boat tail.
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