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New Owner No4 Mk 1/3

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RealRj365 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 13 2018 at 5:25am
Hi,

I recently purchased a No4 Mk1/3 and i have a main question about it. The rifle is in excellent condition and has a 5 groove barrel that is crisp with no pitting. The bolt is numbers matching with a number 1 head. However when you rack the bolt and "lock it forward" but do not put the bolt handle all the way down. You can still dry fire and the bolt handle will go down to the fully locked position. Is this normal operation for these rifles? I have never handled one before and it's seems weird to me. Other than that the rifle is in great condition and stocked up tightly in the wood and there is no pitting on any of the parts and it's otherwise very clean.

I made a video to help explain.



Thank You,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxwell smart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 6:19am
Yes, that is normal.

On the rear underneath side of the bolt body, there are two milled "tracks" separated by a lug. On the cocking piece ( the part attached to the end of the striker/firing pin) there is also a lug which is intended to ride inside the tracks on the bottom of the bolt body.

The design of the bolt uses these tracks and lugs as a safety feature. If the rifle is cocked, but the bolt handle not quite fully down in battery, as the striker goes forward when the trigger is pressed, the two lugs interact in such a way as to force the bolt handle down. This then means that the bolt locking lugs are in the correct position and the rifle will fire safely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 8:31am
It will also sometimes do the opposite, kicking a fully closed bolt handle up slightly. As long as the track is good & the lug ("B") is still "D" shaped you're fine, its a feature of the cock on closing bolt system.
Its a problem if the lug is damaged or broken though as the bolt is no longer blocked by the cams side surfaces.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 8:59am
Excellent question and equally excellent answers!
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxwell smart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 11:10am
[QUOTE=Shamu] It will also sometimes do the opposite, kicking a fully closed bolt handle up slightly.[QUOTE]

It can move the bolt in the other direction, but I don't think it will open a FULLY closed bolt - the lug on the cocking piece has a free track to follow in that circumstance and will not come into play. The small upwards movement of a fully closed bolt is more caused by the effect of firing pin spring torsion I believe.

The bolt safety lug WILL open a bolt handle that is just barely closed (with the handle horizontal looking from the rear) and bring the bolt lugs out of battery - the bolt will then move rearward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2018 at 7:54pm
so - no one has asked yet - is it a savage or a longbranch , the info is sorely missing here and inquiring minds want to know .....just sayin , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RealRj365 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 9:48am
Everyone Thank You for the Answers.

I really do not know if it's a savage or long branch. There are no markings left, and even the FTR No4 Mk1/3 is hard to read. Very Lightly engraved on the receiver.

The rifle is super clean and they only thing i had to tighten up was the rear screw that is just above the trigger area. The screw was loose, but the action was really tight in the wood with no movement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RealRj365 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:15pm
HI Shamu,

I'm looking at the picture you posted and trying to see if my lug B is still shaped like a D. But i cannot see anything that looks like that picture.

Could you show me an actual picture of the bolt area?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:54pm
no original serial number on the bolt or anywhere ? huh , has it the US property mark on the left reciever below the markings ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2018 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

no original serial number on the bolt or anywhere ? huh , has it the US property mark on the left reciever below the markings ? 

The video shows the relief cut for the bolt head forward of the charger bridge,Savage. The quick glance I got of the cocking piece resembles a Savage one as well. I got out all seven of my No4 Mk1's and repeated what he did in the video. All mine do the same thing. The lugs are still engaged into their respective slots so this to me is not an issue. Military weapons are designed with stuff like this in mind and is going to be subject to all kinds of abuse,be it end user or nature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 5:50am
Here you go The bolt is upside down to show it better.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RealRj365 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 3:43pm

My looks to be on the opposite side. It's on the other side of the cut marks of the bottom of the firing pin "case"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RealRj365 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 3:59pm
Here are just some pics. FTR 1954
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxwell smart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 5:05pm
The serial number if still legible will give the best clue as to manufacturer; if it has a "C" in with the numbers it is a Savage, if it has an ''L" it is a Long Branch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 7:26pm
the FTR markings for the conversion to mkI/3 are generally electro pencil at FAZ , these are often hard to read compaired to the roll markings and stamps of the original mfgrs , yes look for a serial with a digit then "C" or "L" for the mfgr , or if small parts have the square "S" or intwined "LB" for clues , those wont always tell the true story tho as they got intermingled at FTR 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2018 at 10:00pm
We need to see the left side of the receiver where the 443**** is stamped into the butt socket and a few of the left side where the FTR is stenciled in as well. The back of the bolt handle looks like it has the same numbers as the receiver stamped into it too.
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