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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 7:59am
jhonelver.
Do you shoot these rifles? If so, which one do you prefer over the others and why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Nope thats the one.
Rare as chicken's teeth over here as very few were imported.

Incidentally, theres a raging argument going on about the "correct" terminology" for the No3 rifles.
One camp swears the P-13, or 14 (Pattern 14) is correct for the rifle in .303 British, but M-14 (model of 1917) is correct for the U.S. 30-06 version.
Your manual cover will fan the flames I'm sure!
Clap

Yes that manual wil ignite the flames of discussion. but that is the intent.
the discussion itself is useless. we should unite and share information not caring about how someone calls a certain rifle. we all know what we mean.

and for the No.8 here is a treat.
it is an Fazakerley 1951.
F.T.R. in 1963 UE (Enfield)

i bought it from someone how has had the rifle since the early 80's. he had the rifle almost 40 years.
and now the pictures Enjoy.














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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 8:23am
I have the same question as Goosic.  I’d particularly like to know how that heavy barrel test rifle shoots.  It’s an interesting concept, as the barrel harmonics would be entirely different than a standard No. 4 and what shoots good in the heavy barrel may not shoot good in a No. 4 with a standard service weight barrel.  
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jhonelver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 8:30am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

jhonelver.
Do you shoot these rifles? If so, which one do you prefer over the others and why?

Yes i do shoot.
i do Veteran competition in the Netherlands.
That is a competition using bolt action rifles from before 1955.
shooting at 100 or 300 meters at 3 targets (10 rounds each) 30 minutes total.
and the rifle has to be in original condition and have atleast 1,5 kg trigger pressure.
a challenging competition but i enjoy it.

i use the Long branch 1950 since 2011 for this competition and one a couple times.
but the No.4 Mk.I T is now up for competition use (without scope).

the other rifles have not been used yet. problem is i bought most of them in the last year. and Covid-19 has shut down all firing ranges since march 2020. so i am sitting here waiting so try out the enfield rifles. L39A1 is the last to enter my collecting just 3 months ago.
i cant wait to go to the range and use it.

i do have a couple other rifles (not enfields) that i use for this competition.
US model of 1917 (P17) Canadian used.
K98k anniversary edition
G98 anniversary edition

And i bought 2 more rifles which wil join me soon, i hope.

No.5 Mk.I (jungle carbine)
L.E. I* 1902 (Long Lee) Commonwealth of Australia. (BSA)

cant wait to get them, but i am waiting for legal papers.
 








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jhonelver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 8:36am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I have the same question as Goosic.  I’d particularly like to know how that heavy barrel test rifle shoots.  It’s an interesting concept, as the barrel harmonics would be entirely different than a standard No. 4 and what shoots good in the heavy barrel may not shoot good in a No. 4 with a standard service weight barrel.  

Yes, i have never test fired the Heavy Barrel.

Problem is, this rifle has a heavy barrel because AI (Artillery Inrichtingen) needed to conduct ammunition test safely. these rifles were not meant to be accurate. but just to test ammo safely. so the can do experiments with different ammunition types, load, pressures etc.

AI had multiple of these rifles in multiple calibers. some for pressure test. some had a magnetic switch connected with the firing pin so they could fire the rifle from a safe distance. disconnecting the magnet would fire the rifle instead of a trigger.

most of these rifles were in 30.06, 762x51 and 8x57. all in mauser K98k rifles.

this was the only enfield version i found and bought. (because i collect enfields)







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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 11:25am
You do have an interesting collection.
I also have a couple of No8's (one for the wife to use in competitions and one for me). They are easier to find in Europe; but are quite expensive now.
I do love the .22's and also have a 1918 SMLE in .22 and a Lithgow made No2MkIV*. All are very accurate and great fun. Also more expensive than the full calibre rifles (except the special stuff)

Will your collection expand into the No1MkIII / SMLE types as well? You seem to be  
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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jhonelver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

You do have an interesting collection.
I also have a couple of No8's (one for the wife to use in competitions and one for me). They are easier to find in Europe; but are quite expensive now.
I do love the .22's and also have a 1918 SMLE in .22 and a Lithgow made No2MkIV*. All are very accurate and great fun. Also more expensive than the full calibre rifles (except the special stuff)

Will your collection expand into the No1MkIII / SMLE types as well? You seem to be  

all Lee Enfield rifles are getting more expensive. .22 trainers are harder to find then normal No.1 Mk.III or No.4 enfields. but i keep looking for them.

i collect all lee enfield rifles. but finding them for the right price is hard.

i wish i could buy them all. but i am still young so i have enough time to collect them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by jhonelver jhonelver wrote:



Yes that manual wil ignite the flames of discussion. but that is the intent.
the discussion itself is useless. we should unite and share information not caring about how someone calls a certain rifle. we all know what we mean.















Correct wording when describing a certain Enfield rifle is in fact a necessity, even if YOU know what is being described. There are many a person that is new to this forum and need the correct definition of what it is that they have.
Please be respectful of others here and please us the correct wording when referring to a certain No. or Mk. of an Enfield rifle...
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:


Correct wording when describing a certain Enfield rifle is in fact a necessity, even if YOU know what is being described. There are many a person that is new to this forum and need the correct definition of what it is that they have.
Please be respectful of others here and please us the correct wording when referring to a certain No. or Mk. of an Enfield rifle...
 


I understand what you say. but still. who is right and who is wrong?
i don't want to be disrespectful, but pushing one name and calling the other wrong is being blind for other possibilities and the fear of being wrong.

P17 or US model of 1917 both are correct
P14 or No.3 Mk.I
and i can find many more rifles with multiple names

what is correct and what is wrong. and who is to decide?

No one should make a problem of either names. if they do they are the ones that are wrong.
it is always from which side you are looking.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 2:09pm
When I first started on this site, my knowledge of these rifles was pretty much just hands on. I've learned a lot from these members. Proper (to this forum) terminology greatly aids the experts to help with questions and trouble shooting. And it's always good to learn something new!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by jhonelver jhonelver wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:


Correct wording when describing a certain Enfield rifle is in fact a necessity, even if YOU know what is being described. There are many a person that is new to this forum and need the correct definition of what it is that they have.
Please be respectful of others here and please us the correct wording when referring to a certain No. or Mk. of an Enfield rifle...
 


I understand what you say. but still. who is right and who is wrong?
i don't want to be disrespectful, but pushing one name and calling the other wrong is being blind for other possibilities and the fear of being wrong.

P17 or US model of 1917 both are correct
P14 or No.3 Mk.I
and i can find many more rifles with multiple names

what is correct and what is wrong. and who is to decide?

No one should make a problem of either names. if they do they are the ones that are wrong.
it is always from which side you are looking.



From which side you are looking.
 
A new member arrives and has an Enfield rifle and has supplied photos of it. The photo shows a No5Mk1.  The new member however continues to refer to it as a No1Mk5. Is the new member right or wrong?
Nomenclature would have it a No5Mk1 as where a No1MkV is a totally different animal.
Using your No3 Mk1 as another example. Some new members have shown us what is definitely a No1Mk111/* SMLE but have referred to it as a No111Mk1 or No3Mk1. Again, is the new member right or wrong?
Correct terminology when describing an Enfield rifle goes a long way which is why nomenclature is priority one here. 
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jhonelver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

From which side you are looking.
 
A new member arrives and has an Enfield rifle and has supplied photos of it. The photo shows a No5Mk1.  The new member however continues to refer to it as a No1Mk5. Is the new member right or wrong?
Nomenclature would have it a No5Mk1 as where a No1MkV is a totally different animal.
Using your No3 Mk1 as another example. Some new members have shown us what is definitely a No1Mk111/* SMLE but have referred to it as a No111Mk1 or No3Mk1. Again, is the new member right or wrong?
Correct terminology when describing an Enfield rifle goes a long way which is why nomenclature is priority one here. 

I understand what you are saying.
I accept multiple names for the same rifle. But someone started this argument that i need to use the correct name.

Now what is cerrect and what is not can differ on many things.

For instance the manual i showed. It give both P17 and US model of 1917 as name.

So you could argeu that both are correct..coming from reliable source.
And that is what i do. I accept both some do not.

P14 or no.3 MkI i use both. But most people dont know No.3 MkI but do 14 same with P17. 

And then there is something special.

Every military has the right to name their weapons.
So for instance the dutch used different names for Lee Enfield Rifles.
I am not using them because tgose names are no longer in use and no one would understand.

I have manuals and drawings from the Dutch Military Acadamy from 1927.
Clearly Shown an lee enfield (MLE) but it is called Model 1895.
I have Dutch manuals of WW2 about the No.4 naming it 7.7mm rifle model 1942.
Palastine also gave the No.4 rifle the name model 1942. (In manual)

Those were correct term as used by the Dutch military in that time period.

Using them here would be wrong. But there is never only 1 correct awnser to something. And that is my point.

Accept that the entire world (except americans) cal the US model of 1917 a P17. I have seen many on sale in europe, UK, Canada, south africa and australia. All calling them P17.  over 80% calls them P17 when they sell it.

That is my point. You do not have to agree with me. And that would be fine asswell. This is also part of the story of these rifles. And that is something that we all need to accept.



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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2021 at 11:17am
jhonelver. Were Enfield rifles air dropped to the Dutch Resistance in WW2?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2021 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

jhonelver. Were Enfield rifles air dropped to the Dutch Resistance in WW2?



Every available firearms was used by the resistance.

but some firearms were supplied.

No.1 Mk.III
Sten
30M1
Thompson

and more.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2021 at 11:33am
Originally posted by jhonelver jhonelver wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

From which side you are looking.
 
A new member arrives and has an Enfield rifle and has supplied photos of it. The photo shows a No5Mk1.  The new member however continues to refer to it as a No1Mk5. Is the new member right or wrong?
Nomenclature would have it a No5Mk1 as where a No1MkV is a totally different animal.
Using your No3 Mk1 as another example. Some new members have shown us what is definitely a No1Mk111/* SMLE but have referred to it as a No111Mk1 or No3Mk1. Again, is the new member right or wrong?
Correct terminology when describing an Enfield rifle goes a long way which is why nomenclature is priority one here. 

I understand what you are saying.
I accept multiple names for the same rifle. But someone started this argument that i need to use the correct name.

Now what is cerrect and what is not can differ on many things.

For instance the manual i showed. It give both P17 and US model of 1917 as name.

So you could argeu that both are correct..coming from reliable source.
And that is what i do. I accept both some do not.

P14 or no.3 MkI i use both. But most people dont know No.3 MkI but do 14 same with P17. 

And then there is something special.

Every military has the right to name their weapons.
So for instance the dutch used different names for Lee Enfield Rifles.
I am not using them because tgose names are no longer in use and no one would understand.

I have manuals and drawings from the Dutch Military Acadamy from 1927.
Clearly Shown an lee enfield (MLE) but it is called Model 1895.
I have Dutch manuals of WW2 about the No.4 naming it 7.7mm rifle model 1942.
Palastine also gave the No.4 rifle the name model 1942. (In manual)

Those were correct term as used by the Dutch military in that time period.

Using them here would be wrong. But there is never only 1 correct awnser to something. And that is my point.

Accept that the entire world (except americans) cal the US model of 1917 a P17. I have seen many on sale in europe, UK, Canada, south africa and australia. All calling them P17.  over 80% calls them P17 when they sell it.

That is my point. You do not have to agree with me. And that would be fine asswell. This is also part of the story of these rifles. And that is something that we all need to accept.



To reiterate my point of contention. 
This is a user friendly site in that nomenclature is observed when describing an Enfield rifle of any No. or Mk. for the sake and courtesy of anyone joining, who has joined, or just new to Enfield rifles period. To do so otherwise, muddies the waters and can and will confuse the novice...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2021 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

To reiterate my point of contention. 
This is a user friendly site in that nomenclature is observed when describing an Enfield rifle of any No. or Mk. for the sake and courtesy of anyone joining, who has joined, or just new to Enfield rifles period. To do so otherwise, muddies the waters and can and will confuse the novice...


Well i said what i needed to say, and i agree with you. as more knowledgeable enfield collectors this is something to think about. but lets keep it simpel and enjoyable for those who are new to the Lee Enfield rifles.

So let this rest and enjoy some picture of Lee Enfield Related items.


First of British Infantry Training Volume I - No.4 Rifle (1955) 





Small Arms Training 1924 (British)



Dutch Instruction Manual for Bren. (1945 - Royal Military Academy)
Translated it is called "Light Machinegun of 7,7mm (Bren)"


Dutch Instruction Manual for the No.4 Rifle (1945)
Translated it is called "7,7mm Lee Enfield model 1942"
They later changed it to rifle No.4



here are three later Dutch instruction manuals. (1952)
left to right, shooting training, rifle knowledge, rifle grenade.

Here they changed the name to "Rifle Lee Enfield (L.E.) of .303 inch Nr.4"




Yes, Dutch people like really strange names for their rifles.




And last but not least.

They inspection tools used by the Dutch army for the Bren, Lee Enfield No.4 and FN Fal.

headspace gauges, muzzle wear, firing pin protrusion, chamber mirror etc.
these are harder to find and i am glad i got them, i use them every time when i am going to buy a Lee Enfield rifle. 

Just a small portion of Lee Enfield related items i own, but they are some of the most important items that i own.


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