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New vs Old grumpy Enfield...

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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 19 2020 at 3:52pm
I went to the range this morning with my teenage daughter in tow. We brought with us that danged old No5MkI converted to 7.62x51mm NATO and we also brought that new fancy shmancy Ruger Scout rifle in .308. My daughter used the Enfield while I used the Ruger. We both used a separate target for sighting in our respective weapon and then commenced to shootin'.  100 yards was our maximum distance with a due east wind of 7mph gusting to 12mph. I did not count her one shot in the ten ring.  We decided to count everything in the X. The humorous part of this is that both our groupings at first glance ,look like a mirror image of each others. Like I had said in the original post. It would not have surprised me if both of these rifles performed almost identically out to 100 yards. A picture is worth a thousand words. If you do the math you will see that both rifles are M.O.A. shooters. That,and I believe my daughter out shot me. 
SideNote: Both rifles were using once fired Lake City NATO brass,full length resized, primed with WLRM primers, loaded with 40.0grns of Norma 202 powder,and topped with the 168 grn Sierra TMK ogive. If I would have included her ten ring shot,the total vertical spread would have been  1.6700" with a 0.5775" horizontal spread.
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pisco View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2020 at 4:08pm
hi that’s good to see i am sitting next to my teenage daughters trying to get them to do the same thing but getting a different answer 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2020 at 4:21pm
That is more than 'pretty good' shooting, accurate and consistent from both of you.

Great job.
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2020 at 5:40pm
Thank you for that comment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2020 at 5:48pm
pisco. She's a natural shootist.  When we are at the range ,she is the tactical systems operator and I am her Scout, calling out shot placements. I've taught her everything I was taught and she is surpassing me now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 4:28am
That's excellent results Goosic. Nothing beats a day at the range with family!
My 8 year old is getting pretty good with the air rifle and the .22's. Great level's of concentration for one so young. If she stick's at it; she'll be much better than I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 4:48am
Even taking the c-c of the widest shots, that's about 1.5 MOA.  Very much on par with the best match prepped No. 4 rifles.    
 
I wish Dad had not sold his No. 5 rifles, he had a few of them.  One of them appeared unissued.  Is there a barrel bearing point in the forend? 
 
The No. 5 had a reputation for poor accuracy and was abandoned as a replacement for the No. 4 rifle.  Might have been a combination of receiver lightening, barrel harmonics and how the forend was stocked up.   Goosic, had you been around at the time, you could have found the solution to this! 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 8:12am
Having a windage adjustable rear sight like you installed on your #5 certainly must help in the accuracy department. I might try one of my PH4 rear sights on my shooter #5 and see how the accuracy improves, it certainly does help on my #4 rifles. I don't shoot more than 10 rounds at a time out of my shooter #5 so I haven't seen any ill effects from the #5 design. I took a bear two seasons ago with that same #5, albeit a close head shot under 50 feet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 8:37am
Two areas of contention with me are both dealing with the forestock. The barrel channel and the trigger guard itself. The stock moved too much forward of the receiver and the lightened trigger guard had a hand in that. The barrel made absolutely no contact with the stock whatsoever as well. 
The trigger guard was replaced with a regular No4 trigger guard that fit snuggly in the stock. The barrel issue was resolved when I made a .020" barrel shim with piece of FelPro gasket material and epoxied it in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 8:41am
Canuck, I wouldn't expect accuracy to improve with a windage adjustable sight.  It does make it easier to get the group centered on the bull, but it won't shrink groups.
I shoot my No. 4 in competition at 200 yards with the Mk 1 service aperture sight and only a few times has the wind had any noticeable effect at that range.   At longer ranges (300+ yards) yes, a windage adjustable sight becomes essential the further the range in order to cope with winds and keep the group centered.  You would have to be very skilled in "holding off" at 600 yards with a 20 mph cross wind.  Imagine having to take up an aim in the space between two adjacent targets?   How do you get a consistent point of aim?
 
 
One of the benefits of a well fitting forend with a center or mid band barrel bearing is that weather conditions (humidity primarily) has less of an effect on the MPI at the target. With muzzle bearing (standard No. 4) the barrel will move with the stock and change the POI.  Even more noticeable with a scope that is mounted to the receiver which does not change the point of aim.    
 
If you have old eyes like me, a reduced size aperture improves depth of focus and helps reduce aiming errors.    
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 8:47am
Goosic, do you know how much pressure your getting at the middle band barrel bearing?  That's exactly where my 7.62 DCRA match rifle is bedded.  I'm assuming then that the No. 5 rifle barrel was free floated?  That might explain the accuracy issues, although a shorter barrel would be stiffer and vibrate less than the No. 4 25 inch barrel.  It's an interesting topic, if you have cracked the long time accuracy problems with the No. 5, that is very useful information. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 10:45am
No5 barrels were designed to be mounted only for the first inch or so and only for the bottom third of the circumference.
If it was completely free floated thats also wrong.

I'd actually like to see a No4 action (without the No5 lightening cuts) & a stiff 7.62 barrel built into a no5 look alike. I think thats close to what he did with his conversion? The lightening cuts were supposed to be a major contributor to the No5's issues.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 10:54am
Sham, I agree, no reason why the rifle you just described would not be very accurate, especially with a heavy barrel such as used on the L39/L42 (but cut down).  I think these were free floating forward of the barrel reinforce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 2:09pm
Shamu.
I found a complete article on a Charnwood converted No5 and the barrel they used looked strikingly similar to a 2A1 7.62mm barrel. britrifles. 
I never checked for any pressure against the shim. With the stock in place and the king screw in place,with it being torqued to 6 ft pounds, the barrel is just touching the shim with no upward pressure. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 6:24pm
i had a no5 action with a no4 barrel years ago i cut it down to no5 length and fitted a flash hider and it shot just like that should never of sold it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2020 at 7:01pm
I have a Santa Fe Jungle Carbine. So,there's my cut down No4 barrel. My No5 was all original except for the flash hider when I bought it and then I saw a Charnwood converted No5 to 7.62 NATO.  Had all the pieces to do the conversion and there ya go...
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