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No. 4 Barrel Markings

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britrifles View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 13 2019 at 10:47am
I just got a used No. 4 barrel in from Sarco.  It looks quite good.  The bore cleaned up very nice.  Its a 5 groove, LH twist.  I'm thinking of swapping out the CA 7.62 Nato barrel on my Fazakerley No. 4 Mk 2 and return this rifle to the original .303.  
 
I have three Parker Hale bore gages: .30300, .30325 and .30350.  They are intended to be used to detect metallic fouling in the bore.  The 0.30300 gage will not enter the bore from either the muzzle or breach end, so the bore is obviously under nominal size. 
 
I've looked at the various markings on the barrel and don't see anything indicating who made the barrel.  The largest marking is "BP" with what appears to be a serial number.   I would like to know who made the barrel.
 
The Savage No. 4 rifle I recently purchased has a stamp on the barrel reinforce "F51" which I assumed is a Fazakerley barrel made in 1951, but that is just a guess.  The rifle was FTR'ed and modified to a No. 4 Mk 1/3 by Faz.  This barrel also is a five groove LH twist and the 0.30300 gages just enter the bore about 1/4 inch. 
 
I was surprised to see how tight these barrels are, I had though most were 0.303 or larger. 
 

 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2019 at 11:09am
Lots of copper in this bore.  I ran Hoppes 9 thru it over the last 2 days; green still coming out on the patches.  I dried that out last night and switched over to Boretech Eliminator.  Lots of blue coming out on the patches, so will work at that for another day or two.  I bet this barrel had never been cleaned.
Barely any perceivable radial play with a F/L sized case in the chamber.  An empty case fired in my Savage or Long Branch won't sit flush at the rim in this barrel, so it's pretty tight.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2019 at 2:25pm
That serial number is Maltby. BP15064 is a Maltby serial number...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2019 at 3:26pm
Thanks Goosic.  Is there any way to identify the production year?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2019 at 4:22pm
Bear43!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2019 at 5:10am
I was somewhat surprised that the used barrel I just received from Sarco and also the barrel on my new (to me) Savage, had a bore less than 0.303 diameter.  The data below comes from Canadian Forces Technical Order C-71-111-000/MA-000 on the No. 4 Rifle (Data Summary), dated 2002: 
 
0.3009 shall run thru the bore
0.307 shall not run thru the bore
0.308 shall not enter the bore at the muzzle more than 0.25 inches and shall not completely enter the chamber at the breech.
0.310 shall not enter the chamber more than 0.25 inches beyond the etched line
 
It must take a lot of shooting to wear a .303 bore to .307.  And I don't think the original manufacturing tolerances went that high (0.301 to 0.304 I recall).     
 
The BSA barrel on my Fulton LB No. 4 when it was new just passed a .303 gage.  After shooting well over 5,000 rounds (don't really know how many for sure), it now passes a .30325 gage, the 0.3035 gage won't enter the breach end more than about 0.5 inch and won't enter the muzzle.     
 
Maybe that's why some barrels don't shoot .311 bullets that well, if the bore diameters are enlarged to 0.306-.307, or even larger at the muzzle and breech.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2019 at 6:12am
Bartlein and Kreiger barrels are indicating that a rifle barrel be change out after 5000 rounds due to throat and muzzle erosion britrifles.  US military rifles go through a barrel refit after every 100 cycles/10,000 rounds. Short and long range BR shooters are refitting between 5000-7000/50-70 c ycles/rounds because of the frequency they compete and the throat and rifling erosion they experience after 5000 rounds/50 cycles. I do not compete in any shooting matches yet I managed to wear out a No4Mk1 rifle barrel by simply shooting 100 bullets through it once a week for 52 weeks.  The bullet spread went from a 4-6" spread,to a 10-12" spread. The original Micrometer reading started out at 0.305. After 5200 rounds the final reading was 0.318. I was using factory loaded Winchester 180 grn SP ammunition as well. If you would be willing to share with us how you  are maintaining  your groups with that many thousands of rounds placed through the rifle,I know that,I for one would be greatly appreciative of learning something new...Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2019 at 7:10am
Very interesting!  I have no idea!   
 
My LB No. 4 with the BSA barrel was new when I got the rifle from my Dad.  It sat for about 40 years unused.  It belonged to a friend of his who had Fultons build up the rifle for competition shooting.  I believe the barrel was ball burnished to .303 (starting from a slightly undersized bore).  Dad's friend never fired it, and neither did Dad. 
 
So, when I got the rifle, I checked the bore with the set of Parker Hale gages dad had.  The .30300 gage just passed thru with slight drag.  The 0.30325 gage would not enter the bore from the breech end more than a slight amount, nor would it enter the muzzle. 
 
I fired about 1200 rounds of Canadian Mk VIIz service ammo before I knew anything about copper fouling.  I cleaned with Hoppes 9 after shooting, every time, using a parker hale coated rod and jag, and their wood rod guide that supports the rod from the end of the reciever.  I was very careful not to allow the rod to rub on the bore (although some in inevitable as the rod bends).
 
Then I started reloading (that was about the year 2001).  I've not kept track of how much I've shot, but I estimate I went thru about 10 boxes of 500 SMK 174 gr. bullets.  So, that's over 6,000 rounds fired.  Now, the 0.30325 gage will just pass thru the bore, the 0.30350 will not. 
 
Accuracy is still good, although I think it has deteriorated slightly from a few years back.  In the last few years, I've been shooting this rifle about 200 rnd/month.      
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2019 at 11:03am
If you could,would you please check the rifling after every 500 rounds and record the findings? Also record the deviation in your groupings after every 500 rounds as well please,and post your findings. The rifle I put together with the 2A1 7.62mm barrel now has 500 rounds through it with no noticable spread deviations. I have no way to guesstimate how many rounds have been shot through the barrel prior to my recieving it so all l can do is start with my baseline numbers. You however know the history of at least two of your rifles and the approximated rounds fired through them. I am very curious as to how many bullets it takes to wear a No4Mk1 barrel out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2019 at 3:37pm
This is an interesting topic, and I’m hoping others will chime in with their experience.  

Wished I had a more complete set of bore gages.  In the old Parker Hale catalog I have it shows gages were available from 0.300 to 0.306 in increments of 0.00025.  So it would be quite easy to check the bore every 500 rounds and get a good measurement.  These gages fit on the end of the Parker Hale cleaning rod.  




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