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sontez31 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 30 2007 at 12:12pm
   Most of you guys, especially those of you from Canada, New Zeland and Australia are hurting my feelings!Cry  You guys seem to not have much respect for America's beloved .30-06.  Now, before you all jump on my case.......... let me explain myself.
   I happen to agree with some of you in that the .30-06 is a bit overpowered for most big game animals in North America.  After all, how many thousands more deer, elk, etc., have been taken with the .30-30 than almost any other caliber?  And I agree that gun manufactures, ammunition manufactures,  gun magazine writers, and pure laziness are to blame with our insatiable desire for calibers that are bigger and more powerful.  I mean, who needs the Remington Ultra Magnums, Weatherby Magnums, and Winchester Short Magnums?
   It all comes down to BULLET PLACEMENT!!!  Well, that and bullet construction.........Common sense, don't use a lightly constructed varmint bullet on elk or moose.  You want something that will penetrate to the vitals, not explode on impact and just leave a surface wound.  People are too lazy now-a-days to spend time at the range learning how to shoot well, from different firing positions, different distances, different weather conditions, etc.,.  Most people fire a couple shots at the range a few days before huntng season and call it good.  They want something they can shoot an animal in the ass with and kill it with one shot.  When that doesn't happen, they blame the rifle/caliber, then trade it for something bigger.  Then they develope a flinch from shooting something they're not comfortable with and become an even worse shot than before.  The industry capitalizes on this and comes out with something even more powerful to offer them
   That being said...........I shoot a .30-06.  Why?  I can go just about anywhere and find a wide selection of ammunition for it if mine should be forgotten, lost or what not.  It will take down anything I shoot at within reasonable range.  Also, the .30-06 has served my country well for the last 101 years.  In fact, it served the whole free world rather well back in the 1940's if you know what I mean.  But I don't just shoot the .30-06, I also shoot a 6.5x55 Sweedish Mauser.  This caliber will also do everything the .30-06 will, just a bit harder to find ammo for it here in the U.S..  Neither caliber kicks too bad so I'm able to shoot both well.
   Now don't get upset with me!!  I do like things British!!  Old Land Rovers, old Mini Coopers, tea, the SAS, James Bond, British comedy, and Lee-Enfields in .303!!  I think some of my respect for the .303 comes from it's proud service in British history (just like my respect for the .30-06), and the fact that I just like things that are different.  Why else would I love my 6.5x55 so much, other than that it's accurate and easy to shoot?
   So, in the words of Rodney King............Can't we all just get along?Big%20smile
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Hatchetman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hatchetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 1:47pm
Try using paragraphs mate.

The dirty thirty and dirty oh six are stupid bloody seppo crackers, why would we want to use them. Tongue

Well most aussies are not keen on magnums, unless you want to kill a 17 HMR a magnum.

I would say (feel free to correct me here dave, al, lithgow or even roo) the most popular chamberings here are 223 and 243 and 308. And of course every cocky (farmer) and shooter has a 22 in their safe.

6.5*55 is a top rifle for aussie critters, and popular in old sweed mausers, as well as in sako's and tikkas.

For some reason some aussies like using those clunky old dirty thirty lever actions in hunting rifles. I would much rather a remmington 7600 in 308 with an aftermarket magazine. Chasing pigs on motorbikes across the plains with a lever gun or pump up is popular as well. Once upon a time blokes on bikes would use a SKS carbine, but since they are all semi-automatic and evil they have been since banned.

Most hunters here don't bother with magnums here except for buff and scrub bull hunters, as well as some sambar deer hunters.

Most sambar hunters go for 30/06, but the 300 WSM and 338 win mag are popular.

Personally for hunting rifles I use a .243, 22lr and 303. I am also buying a 204 ruger for turning cute and fluffys into paddock pizzas.




But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End
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allan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 3:34pm
yep...personal choice, but i owned a Ruger .308 synthetic stock\stainless,and after a coupla months up queensland chasin pigs and bruisin my upper torso i thought, to hell with this,
and traded me a .270 (the heat seekin missile launcher)..which still smashes pigs..at what i think further distance from the 308..and is a pleasure to shoot and doesnt bruise me from neck to toe! with the same results.
 
bottom line of my thinkin is..unless you just wanna brag to ya mates that you shoot a rifle, worthy of sitting atop a battleship..go for a calibre that does the job.
 
Edit- in saying that i admit ive shot more game in both quantity and variety with my ol side by side 12 Gauge, ..that i never leave home  for a trip without, and with speeds of what say 1000 ft p\s.
go the shotties and go the XXXX LOL! burp.
'SAVIOUR OF OUR SKIES BOYO!'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hatchetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 4:46pm
Those synthetic rugers are evil!

I bet it had that bloody boat paddle stock. The first centerfire I shot was one of those bloody boat paddle stocked rugers in 308!

Needless to say I wasnt keen to go back for a second helping of punishment at the hands of a boat paddle ruger. I found the 303 with brass butt plate was easier on my shoulder!

The 270 (which is quite popular here) you would think would have more recoil because it is burning more powder to push the pill out the end of the spout. I guess alot of it will be perceived as well.
But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 5:51pm
id say the stock you speak of is what i had,i havent heard it being called a boat paddle, i used to think more along the lines of a fence pailing!!  LOL ..in the middle of the stock was  stamped Ruger and the stock wouldve been..ohhh  half inch thick in the middle.
oh yes i owned it for about 6 months, if that...
and my mrs at the time used to think i was off up queensland playin fisty cuffs in bars instead of shootin.
 
'SAVIOUR OF OUR SKIES BOYO!'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 5:58pm
I have to agree with you there Allan. I got hold of a remi 700 in 308 went down to the range and popped off a couple of rounds. After 30 I felt like I'd been hit with a hammer.  First time in over 40 years a rifle made my shoulder ache. Cured it though I removed the rubber butt pad and replaced it with a thick recoil pad thats cured the problem.  Weight of the rifle has a lot to do with it. The enfield is a hell of a lot heavier so it absorbs recoil.
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons

Born free taxed to death!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hatchetman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 6:17pm
Thats it Al. Look bloody ugly and sickly thin, about as thick as a fence pailing as well.

Evil things they are.
But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2007 at 10:51pm
 Just Calm down a little Sontez 31 !!!!!! First up Welcome to the
ENFIELD RIFLES  Now Mate as a Australian & a Pro hunter Shooter for over 40 yrs! I have never heard a bad word spoken of the 30-06 ! In fact I reckon it's a Grand old Round ! That I might add was used to give us such rounds as the 25-06 & the .270 to name but a few !Over here as in Canada ,the .303 is like the 30-06 to you people in the US ,the ammo is easily found as are rifles chambered for that round!  The Problem as I see it is that like us ,you people have been dazzled by every new round that hits the market ! People forget the Old Standards.
          I totally agree with you on the fact that the average hunter,dosen't spend enough time learning the craft of bullet placement & there has been much discussion on this forum on this subject.
        Now without being insulting ,or trying to ruffle your feathers this Site is dedicated to LEE Enfields  so needless to say unless the round is .303Brit or any of it's off spring it doesn get mentioned

       Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lost Kangaroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 6:23am
Calibers I owned and shot in Oz.....303, 7.62, 5.56, 222,8mm, and wait for it................30.06!! All good rounds for different things....but, if any of them hits you, centre mass inside 300 metres.....say goodnight (except the 5.56, never really felt like it could smack em down like the others, even the .222 felt more powerful in my Sako, although, the 5.56 was fired from an M16 and they always felt like toys anyway, no offence yanks!!)
Get some
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 6:57am
Lost Kangaroo, the 5.56 was not ment as a pure killing round for the Millitary. it was more on the lines of a wounding round. and if your enemy thinks like us you try to get your Buddy help so in wounding 1 enemy the theory is 2 have to carry him off the battle field. henc one shot placed and 3 combatants removed from the battle... Great theory but I dont think it worked in Veitnam. Dave could probably confirm that.
Now as for the 30-06 , I dont have one yet. but my Dad was in the South Pacific for WW II and was an excelent shot. He and I used to talk about shooting and how most hunters now days dont even know what there Rifle will do. distance wise.
I once over heard a hunter with his Buck he just Baged braging how far the shot was. He said with astonishment that the Buck was allmost 100 yds out. like he had done somthing incredable.
And to top it all off these persons are using a scope for these allmost 100 yd shots. Go figure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 8:14am
Ahem...If I may impart MY PERSONAL observations on the subject @ hand...(sound slick, dont I?) Sontez-if your gonna hang out here, you better understand that sooner or later EVERYTHING & EVERYONE gets trashed here! Its all in a fun/sporting way-better grow some armour!!
I think Davey said it best when he explained popularity of any particular caliber to a country...but I still have some "issues" with the 30.06 brute.
I owned an M-1(sold it back to U.S.Army,yet!)& have had a number of M-1 thumbs to prove it! I found it a hoot to shoot!.Designed so the simplest soldier could maintain it, heavy/durable. But..I think my dislike comes from different source.In WWII the commonwealth was already @ it 2 years afore Uncle Sam showed up.Our calibers were homogenous.Sammy had to stick to his N.I.H. mantra(not invented here) & that damn near cost us the war!!We couldn't trade ammo etc.Plus-hit-power was a little excessive.(NIH was prevalent in ALOT of materiel then,& still continues today-we can discuss that off forum if ya like)Remember-Sam WAS originally tinkering with a .303 round, but decided America needed her own caliber.30.06 is VERY common here, becoming even more so even than .303!! 6.5 isn't quite that common-but roughly same price.Funny thing is its all made Stateside now!!I have alot of friends that use 30.06& seem happy with itI guess ya use what your comfortable with..I take exception to people stating .303 is a little light.Out of 22 people @ 2 moose camps this year I counted 9 Enfields & only 3 30.06(30/30,308 etc)
ah well-fer what its worth. Welcome to the site, by the way(& be nice to cookie-he's our forum troll)
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 8:52am

The 30-06 has earned it spot in history and will never be forgotten. It helped win two world wars and several major conflicts. It is still one of the finest rounds ever designed and still out sells all other rounds two to one here in the states. Oh it still has won more 1000-yard bench rest competitions then any other round. In Iraq some snipers are using their personal rifles chambered in the trusty 06, because it has a little more energy the then the 7.69 NATO by the way is just a shorten version on the 06. More wildcat and commercial rounds have been based on the 06 then any other round. Here is just a few examples, .270 Winchester, .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO), 25-06, 30-06 Ackley improved, etc just to name a few. Also there is more commercially available powder and rounds for the 30-06 then any round.

 

       Im very found on the 30-06 and is the main stay of my hunting arsenal but as far as collecting I prefer the Enfield. Remember guys it does not matter what you shoot as long as you shoot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 8:55am

The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced thirty ought six) is a .308 inch (7.82 mm) (.300 inch is 7.62 mm) caliber rifle round, also known as the 7.62 x 63 mm, introduced to the United States Army in 1906 (hence -06) and standardized, with use continuing into the 1960s, tapering off in the 1960s and early 1970s.

It was developed from and superseded the nearly identical .30-03, having a slightly shorter casing and a higher velocity spitzer bullet. There were three main production runs of the round, that roughly correspond to large stocks built up during wars: the initial .30-06, the M1 Ball, and the M2 Ball.

The M1903 Springfield rifle, introduced alongside the earlier cartridge, was quickly modified to accept the .30-06. It replaced the 6 mm Lee Navy as well as remaining older calibers such as the .30 US Army (also called .30-40 Krag) used in the Model 1892 Krag. The .30-06 remained the US Army's main cartridge for nearly 50 years before it was finally replaced by the 7.62 x 51 mm (7.62mm NATO, commercial .308 Winchester) with the adoption of the M14 in 1954. However, the first M14s were not fielded until 1957, and the .30-06 remained in service into the 1970s, mainly as a machine gun cartridge.

It was used in the bolt-action M1903 Springfield and M1917 Enfield, the semi-automatic M1 Garand, the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR), and numerous machine guns, including the M1919 series. It served the United States in both World Wars and in the Korean War, its last major use being in Vietnam. Large volumes of surplus brass made it the basis for dozens of commercial and wildcat cartridges, as well as being extensively used for reloading. The .30-06's power, combined with the ready availability of surplus firearms chambered for it, and so demand for commercial ammunition, has made it a popular hunting round. It is suitable for large mammals such as deer, elk, and moose.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2007 at 8:57am

 Performance

The .30-06 is a powerful round designed in an age when 1,000 yard (914 m) shots were expected. In 1906, the original .30-06 cartridge consisted of a 150 grain (9.7 g) flat base cupronickel jacketed bullet. After World War I, the United States military realized the need for better long range performance out of machine guns. Based on reports from Europe, a streamlined, 173 grain (11.2 g), boat tail, gilding-metal bullet was used. The .30-06 cartridge with the 173 grain (11.2 g) bullet was called the "M1 Ball".

Army practice was to use the oldest ammunition for training, so older stocks of M1906 continued in use until exhausted in 1936. Once the new M1 began seeing widespread use, the US military realized it was exceeding the safety limits of ranges constructed for the 1906 cartridge over the past 30 years. Rather than engage in massive construction projects, it was decided to switch back to the original profile bullet but utilize a newer jacket material. Initially, this was stained to match the color of the cupro-nickel jacket.

This 152 grain (9.8 g) flat base bullet without the stain was standardized in 1940 as the "Ball, M2" cartridge. According to U.S. Army Technical Manual 43-0001-27, M2 Ball specifications call for 2,740 feet per second (835 m/s) velocity, measured 78 feet (24 m) from the muzzle. M2 Ball was the standard issue ammunition for use in U.S. military rifles and machineguns until replaced by the 7.62x51mm for the M14 and M60.

Commercially manufactured rifles chambered in .30-06 are popular for hunting. Current .30-06 factory ammunition varies in bullet weight from 110 to 220 grains (7.1 to 14.3 g) in solid bullets, and as low as 55 grains (3.6 g) with the use of a sub-caliber bullet in a sabot. Loads are available with reduced velocity and pressure as well as increased velocity and pressure for stronger firearms. The .30-06 ranks as one of the most popular sporting cartridges in the world.

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NOTE: .30-06 cartridges are also produced commercially with a plethora of different bullets and to a number of different specifications.

  • Armor Piercing, M2
This cartridge is used against lightly armored vehicles, protective shelters, and personnel, and can be identified by its black bullet tip.
  • Armor Piercing Incendiary, T15/M14 and M14A1
This cartridge is used, in place of the armor piercing round, against flammable targets. The tip of the bullet is colored with aluminum paint. The M14A1 featured an improved core design and incendiary charge.
  • Ball, M1906
This cartridge is used against personnel and unarmored targets, and can be identified by its silver-colored bullet. The M1906 has a 150 grain (9.7 g) projectile and flat base. Its jacket is a cupro-nickel alloy which was found to foul the bore quickly.
  • Ball, M1
The M1 has a 173 grain (11.2 g), nine-degree boat-tailed projectile designed for aerodynamic efficiency. Though it had a lower initial velocity, velocity and energy were greater at longer ranges due to its efficient shape. The jacket material was also switched to gilding metal to reduce fouling.
  • Ball, M2
With a 152 grain (9.8 g) bullet based on the profile of the M1906, this cartridge incorporated the gilding-metal jacket of the M1 projectile and had a higher muzzle velocity than either of the earlier cartridges.
  • Blank, M1909
This cartridge is used to simulate rifle fire. The cartridge is identified by having no bullet, and by a cannelure in the neck of the case which is sealed by red lacquer.
  • Dummy, M40
This cartridge is used for training. The cartridge has six longitudinal corrugations and there is no primer.
  • Explosive, T99
Development of a cartridge that contained a small explosive charge which more effectively marked its impact. Often referred to as an "observation explosive" cartridge, the T99 was never adopted.
  • Incendiary, M1917
Early incendiary cartridge, bullet had a large cavity in the nose to allow the material to more easily shoot forward on impact. Because of this the M1917 had a tendency to expand on impact. The M1917 had a blacked tip.
  • Incendiary, M1918
Variant of the M1917 with a normal bullet profile to comply with international laws regarding open-tipped expanding bullets.
  • Incendiary, M1
This cartridge is used against unarmored, flammable targets. The tip of the bullet is painted blue.
  • Match, M72
This cartridge is used in marksmanship competition firing, and can be identified by the word "MATCH" on the head stamp.
  • Tracer, M1
Tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. The M1 has a red tip.
  • Tracer, M2
Tracer for observing fire, signaling, target designation, and incendiary purposes. Has a short burn time. The M2 originally had a white tip, but then switched to a red tip like the M1.
  • Tracer, T10/M25
Improved tracer over M1/M2. Designed to be less intense in terms of brightness than either the M1 or M2 tracers. The M25 had an orange tip.
  • Rifle Grenade Cartridges, M1, M2, and M3/E1
These cartridge are used in conjunction with the M1 (for the M1903 rifle), M2 (for the M1917 rifle), and the M7 series (for the M1 rifle) grenade launchers to propel rifle grenades. The cartridge has no bullet and the mouth is crimped. The differences between the three cartridges have to do with the powder charge and the subsequent range of the launched grenade. The M3E1 also featured an extended case neck
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