Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Info for New Enfield Owners
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - No4 mk 1* Long Branch Forestock question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

No4 mk 1* Long Branch Forestock question

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No4 mk 1* Long Branch Forestock question
    Posted: March 15 2020 at 8:33pm
he!!o all.
I am very new here and new to Enfields.  I do own an M1917 American Enfield, but that probably doesn't count.
I recently picked up a 1944 No 4 Mk1* Long Branch barreled action.  It isn't pretty.  But I intend to restore it to original.  I bought a Mk1 stock set from Liberty Tree Collectors.  Every picture I found on the web suggested to me that this is the correct set for this action.  My trigger is not trigger guard mounted, it is mounted on the receiver and that is where I am having problems.
The forestock that came with my set is not cut out to accommodate the receiver mounted trigger.  It also has the steel reinforcing strap across the back.  The pictures I have found of a Mk1* seem to show this strap intact and I can only assume the wood is intact as well.
I have tried to mount the forestock to the receiver and there is no way that I have found to get that reinforcing strap past the trigger and sear.  Also, if I were to somehow get it past the trigger/sear, there is part of the receiver where I believe the reinforcing strap would sit when assembled.
Fellas, I'm at a loss.  I have been working on rifles as a hobby for the better part of 20 years.  I assembled that M1917 from gathered parts over the course of 3 years. I have restored rifles that have sat in corn cribs, barns and basements for decades. I am a Carpenter by trade with over 30 years experience.   I do not want to get this wrong and have come to you for any and all advice you can give.

I know I can probably pick one of these rifles up for less money than I will have into this one, but in my case, it's the journey and not the destination for this project.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 3308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2020 at 9:02pm
Welcome from Phoenix Arizona. 
Your description of your rifle indicates that it has been refurbished to the Mk1/2,Mk1/3,Mk2 with receiver mounted trigger. Your rifle should have on the receiver electro stenciled No4Mk1/2 or No4Mk1/3 or No4Mk2. Either or give Liberty Tree a call back and see if they will swap out a No4Mk2 stock set with your No4Mk1 stock set. Pictured is my Custom No4Mk2 stock. Notice the screw through the stock. This is what the the full wood stock set will have for your rifle...
Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2020 at 9:17pm
After reading your post, I went and grabbed it and did some light bronze brushing on the receiver.  
You are correct.  There is a faintly visible number 3 after the *.  The 3 is followed by (F)FTR.  I also discovered what looks like a serial number in front of No4 Mk1*.  All of this is in electro pencil.  
Thank you for your reply.  Did this refurb happen to a lot of these rifles?
Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2020 at 9:21pm
The original serial number is 62L4115.  I will give Liberty Tree a call tomorrow.
Thanks again.

I have a brother that lives in Surprise, AZ.
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 3308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2020 at 10:23pm
1942 No4MkI* Long Branch first photo. Second photo is my 1943 No4MkI* Savage...Thumbs Up
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 3308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2020 at 10:58pm
FTR.  Factory Thorough Repair (F) Fazackerly.  Yes the majority of them went through this update process when sent back to the Fazackerly plant for inspection and or repairs.  Somewhere near the update No4Mk1/3 should also be the date the FTR was done as well...
Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 3:15am
I did some looking and read some info on the Fazakerly refurb program.  I learned a few things that answered several questions.
Thanks for the info Goosic.  I believe it has set me on a good path.
The barreled receiver did not come with a bolt.  Last night I won an ebay auction for one and some other needed parts.  I have ordered a set of go/nogo gauges and a muzzle erosion gauge.  The muzzle does pass the "bullet test", but I like to be more thorough than that.
I'm currently working 12 hour days, 6 days a week on a night shift.  Tonight was my night off.  And when things slow down I will dig into this project with both hands and hopefully have it done by mid summer.
What is the proper finish for these rifles?  I have seen pictures of them blued, Parkerized and just painted black.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 11788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 5:34am
Are you aware of the need to hand fit the bolt? They aren't really "interchangeable"
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 2777
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 7:08am
I never new that until I came to this forum. I'm still not sure what that process entails (what tools you need, how/what to measure, etc.)
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 11788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 8:07am
There are several requirements.
1: the bolt head must not over clock (tighten) more than 15° past the ribs aligning.
2: Both locking lugs must engage equally (not necessarily fully, but equal does matter.)
3: Headspace must be correct.
4: Firing pin must protrude the correct distance when at rest in the "fired" position.
Ok how to get them & in what order.
FIRST check the headspace using gauges.

GO NO-GO FIELD

(One dimple) (Two dimples) (Three dimples)

GO = 0.064"        NO-GO = 0.067"      FIELD = 0.074".

IF the head needs to be changes locate one with the correct length (or even a TINY amount under, you may be making some changes & you don't want a perfect one you'll make imperfect while doing them.)

Check over clocking. tighten the bolt head fully on the bolt. The rib must at least align 100% with each other so the bolt can be inserted in the action. There is a maximum of 15° past the ribs aligning This is about the width of the rib as a rough guide.

Now you check for headspace again with the new head fitted.

Next is lug engagment.

use some "engineers blue (Dychem)" or in a pinch a felt marker to blacken the rear faces of both locking lugs. Fully close the bolt on a resized fired case. Open it remove the bolt & examine the dye to see how much has been removed from where. If both ate about 20~30% (or more) removed to the same amount you're GTG.

IF THEY ARENT you have to "grind down" the rear face of the one that is MORE engaged to allow the less engaged one to make more contact. An Arkansas stone works for this & a shim (made from a soda or beer can) will protect the bolt from being effected if you slip. re mark & repeat till correct. measure much, grind little.

Now you check for headspace again, as stoning may have changed it.

Now measure firing pin protrusion with the new head & adjusted bolt. It should be between 0.040 & 0.050". file down the tip keeping the rounded shape of the original end.


Test fire to check everything.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 1:20pm
Now I do.  Is this because they are at the rear?  Or is it by design?
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 10205
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2020 at 4:18pm
welcome , glad you have joined us and yes the "american enfields" are welcome here , some of us are  rather taken with these a few of the dozens i once had - these were my favorites 



Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 5:23am
Mine is mostly Remington with a few Eddystone parts here and there.  It has a Winchester buttplate, if I remember correctly.  Most definitely my favorite rifle, new or milsurp.
Since I put it together, my 03A3 just sits in the gun cabinet, lookin sad.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 11788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 5:56am
By design. Back when the L-E was designed there was no plug n play, many parts were hand fitted.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Phinfan View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: March 15 2020
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 1:31pm
Here is what I have so far.  It's basically just the stock set and the barreled action.  The stock set is caked in cosmoline and the action is rough.  There is some pitting, but none is very deep.  There is a machine shop here in town that I have an appt at to have it magnafluxed to check for cracks in the receiver this weekend.
I keep forgetting to call Liberty Tree to see if I can exchange this set for a Mk2 set.  It's kind of a bummer because this set is Walnut and their Mk2 sets are Beech.  I like the Walnut. 
I have a lot of work ahead of me, and that's okay.  

Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 10205
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2020 at 5:38pm
you can learn to like the beech , its more prevalent these days , you will pay way more for the walnut i think and perhaps be disappointed , ive not bought a stock set in the last decade or two , im only hearing others comments 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.