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No4 MK1

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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 7:51pm
Let me know when you arrive. Would be glad to meet and greet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatheadsal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 7:59pm
I certainly will, will be about an hour and half north of you, will be nice to meet some gun buddies to hang with. How are the gunshows there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 8:13pm
Crossroads of the West has at least two of them a year here and the turn out is exemplary. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatheadsal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 8:20pm
good news. Needless to say most of new York's shows are pretty anemic. Talk to you after september. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 9:24pm
Definitely. 
If you will be living in or near Prescott.  Visit J&G Gun Sales. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tharruff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 3:20am
Johnnybravo,

Can you tell me where you found the bolt heads for sale that you mentioned ?

I am also looking for a bolt head for a No 4 Mk 1 rifle...in a size '3' and haven't been able to find a source.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 5:39am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:


Please tell us you didn't pull the front of the forend down to remove it! That's a bad thing.


?? Not sure I understand. Nothing was forced apart during disassembly. 

....and yes , it will be going to a gunsmith before first fire. 


Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 7:14am
It wouldn't need to be to do unintentional damage.
There's an area called "The Draws" at the rear ish end of the forestock. Its a critical part of bedding the action to the wood.
If you removed the wood by innocently pulling the front away from the wood when removing it you may have accidentally crushed & so damaged them by the lever action involved.
The correct way is to tap the REAR end down gently so it separates parallel to the barrel.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 8:23am
Originally posted by Jonnybravo Jonnybravo wrote:

ok.....so yes it was out of a trash can. I ended going to the house where I got it and asked if they had the bolt and magazine......then got the back story.  Apparently the girl that lives at the house with her husband got the gun as a hand me down from the grandfather who was in WWII. Sometime during the grandfathers ownership, he removed the mag and bolt and stored it separately from the gun for safety reasons. But when the grandfather died, nobody knew where the missing items went. So it was handed as-is down to the granddaughter, who stored it in the basement (not knowing anything about guns)and there it sat getting rusty. They were actually glad someone was going to rescue it.  

As Paul Harvey Would say “now you know the rest of the story”
Numrich Gun Parts in Hurley has pretty much everything you will need to put the rifle back together.  Sarco, Dixiegunworks, BDLLTD, and Apex will also have Enfield rifle parts as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 8:28am
Originally posted by tharruff tharruff wrote:

Johnnybravo,

Can you tell me where you found the bolt heads for sale that you mentioned ?

I am also looking for a bolt head for a No 4 Mk 1 rifle...in a size '3' and haven't been able to find a source.
Can you elaborate on why you need a #3 bolt head? Did a knowledgeable gunsmith headspace the rifle with the correct headspace gauge and what is the length of the current bolthead?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tharruff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 9:21am
A semi-knowledgeable gunsmith (me) evaluated the head space with a 'Field' gauge.

The current both head is a size '0' and measured 0.625 as I recall.

I have been down this path twice with two No 1 Mk III rifles.

Both were successfully returned to fireable condition.

I think that in the case of this No 4 Mk 1 rifle a size '3' bolt head that measures 0.634 to 0.636 will do the job.

I currently have a wanted ad for the same.

The original poster indicated that he had found size '3' bolt heads for sale...I have thus far been unable to find a size '3'.

If he will divulge his source I would like to try and buy one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 10:14am
Originally posted by tharruff tharruff wrote:

A semi-knowledgeable gunsmith (me) evaluated the head space with a 'Field' gauge.

The current both head is a size '0' and measured 0.625 as I recall.

I have been down this path twice with two No 1 Mk III rifles.

Both were successfully returned to fireable condition.

I think that in the case of this No 4 Mk 1 rifle a size '3' bolt head that measures 0.634 to 0.636 will do the job.

I currently have a wanted ad for the same.

The original poster indicated that he had found size '3' bolt heads for sale...I have thus far been unable to find a size '3'.

If he will divulge his source I would like to try and buy one.

I'm sure you realise that specifying a No3 bolt head is pointless - the fact you refer to it as a 'size' 3 is telling.

No3 bolt heads can be shorter than No0, No1 or No2 bolt heads.

For example a Size 0.632" could be any '#' of bolt head.

You need to identify what SIZE (actual dimension) that you need and buy one that is the right SIZE.

Buying a No3 bolt head will very likely end in tears.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 10:17am
Here is a table showing actual bolt head sizes, with the dimensions you are looking for any 'number' could be what you want - it could even be a No0.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonnybravo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 10:19am
for the size 3 bolt head.....I found one while doing an extensive search online but have since not been able to locate it again.....I believe it was $65. I ended up getting a size zero to start. If I do need a different size head , are the bolt head parts interchangeable? I have a gunslinger that is knowledgeable on the Enfields and will set the headspace for me and potentially do first fire sight it in(if timing works out).
Thanks,
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 11:42am
Originally posted by tharruff tharruff wrote:

A semi-knowledgeable gunsmith (me) evaluated the head space with a 'Field' gauge.

The current both head is a size '0' and measured 0.625 as I recall.

I have been down this path twice with two No 1 Mk III rifles.

Both were successfully returned to fireable condition.

I think that in the case of this No 4 Mk 1 rifle a size '3' bolt head that measures 0.634 to 0.636 will do the job.

I currently have a wanted ad for the same.

The original poster indicated that he had found size '3' bolt heads for sale...I have thus far been unable to find a size '3'.

If he will divulge his source I would like to try and buy one.
I was just asking to verify if headspace was checked with a .074" NoGo gauge because the Forster. 070" field gauge will give you a somewhat false reading.  The Armourer is correct about bolthead lengths being misconstrued between the numbers. However,you stated that your #0 is .625". Typically the next logical step would be to the next size up. Each number increment should but not always be in .003" increments.  Your next bolthead length should be .628-.631. 
I.have a spare #1 bolthead that is .630"
I also have two spare #3 boltheads.  One is .638" and the other is .637"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Jonnybravo Jonnybravo wrote:

for the size 3 bolt head.....I found one while doing an extensive search online but have since not been able to locate it again.....I believe it was $65. I ended up getting a size zero to start. If I do need a different size head , are the bolt head parts interchangeable? I have a gunslinger that is knowledgeable on the Enfields and will set the headspace for me and potentially do first fire sight it in(if timing works out).


The following are notes from Peter Laidler on proper use of headspace gauges and bolt head sizes :
Now that the gauge is into the chamber and the bolt is being closed, this is where the trouble lies. It’s important here to remember the often said phrase among Armourers of ‘DON’T OVER CHS’. Here’s another thing to remember during this. Because there is a camming action operating while OPENING the bolt, called ‘PRIMARY EXTRACTION’ this action also operates when closing the bolt. And the same primary extraction forces that will enable the infantryman to force the bolt closed and unlock and extract a possibly distorted she!! case, covered in wet silt and mud in the saltwater Magrove swamps of Johore in Malaya that’s caused the case to stick hard to the chamber walls will also enable the butchers or bubbas to close the bolt hard against the gauge. NO-GO on the .074” gauge is when, using the lightest finger and thumb action on the knob causes a slight feel of resistance.
The next question you’re going to ask is ‘…where during the bolt closing movement is this slight feel of resistance acceptable --- Is it almost closed or, hardly closed or in between’? Good question and the answer in the bible reads thus: ‘…with a 0, 1 or 2 bolt head, there must be resistance onto the .074” gauge prior to there being a minimum of .050” from the underside of the bolt lever to the contacting point of the body socket’. Then it goes on to say ‘…….With a No3 bolt head the left edge…………..’ But I want you to forget this because the statement was too ambiguous. I suggest that you use my maxim of ‘WITH ANY SIZE OF BOLT HEAD FITTED THERE MUST BE RESISTANCE OF THE BOLT ONTO THE .074” GAUGE PRIOR TO THERE BEING A MINIMUM OF .050” FROM THE UNDERSIDE OF THE BOLT LEVER TO THE CONTACTING POINT OF THE BODY SOCKET. I want the master Masons among you to learn that by rote!
Using this criteria, if a No3 bolt head starts to resist half way closed and a No2 resists at .051” from the body side, then use the No2 bolt head. Remember DON’T OVER CHS
There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, it is from a point when the underside of the bolt handle is approx .15” from the sharp curve between the top of the body and the side of the butt socket, that the bolt effectively ceases to move any further forwards and is effectively locked.
The second is that prior to the point of fully locking, a feature called ‘mechanical safety’ comes into operation and (it’s getting technical now……….) the stud on the cocking piece will strike the stud between the short and long cam groove at the rear of the bolt causing a diminished force of blow to the striker, resulting in a miss-fire! Phew!
You will understand that this is a highly condensed précis of events taking in months of learning, investigating and examining undertaken by apprentices and I’m trying to cram it into a 40 minute lesson!
This brings me to another point………. It’s very basically this. If you cannot get headspace, even using the very relaxed criteria I have discussed here by using a new bolt and a No3 bolt head, then I’m afraid that it means your body is knackered. This quaint old Armourers technical term indicates that it’s seen better days ….., it’s xxxxed! You COULD allow yourself up to, say, .078” headspace but the technical opinion reached during research into this during the 50’s is that it’s a palliative and not a true cure.

There is more to headspacing than just size - maybe even more important is Bolt-head overturn :

Check the bolt head to ensure it does not overturn by more than 20 degrees when assembled to the bolt.
The 20 degrees may be measured as 4.76mm (3/16”) from the left corner of the bolt head lug to the left corner of the bolt column.
An over-rotating bolt head allows all the recoil to be taken on the threads, with in few rounds your headspace will be back to where it was.
A picture speaks a thousand words :

















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