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No4 stock very proud wood.

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scottz63 View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 23 2022 at 10:39pm
Picked up a very nice "NOS" stock for my Savage No4. The wood is very proud where the butt plate goes. Is this right/ok? 

Also, N49/Broad Arrow marked. Where was this made? UK? Post WW2?

Thanks, Scott






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2022 at 11:11pm
War time contracts N north district, M middle dist, and S south dist.  N49 would be H. Morris Co.Ltd., Glasgow, Scotland. They are furniture Makers.
Being proud I believe is how they were made, whether they were trimmed down to fit the butt plate, idk, a couple of mine are proud and some aren`t.
Maybe someone here will be able to shed some insight to this. I`ve read many things about the fitting of butt plates, all interesting but who knows for sure.
shoot em if you got em
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2022 at 11:17pm
Sounds good. Thanks for the info!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 12:44pm
Perfectly normal, the were designed to be finish fitted at installation.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 3:04pm
What I typically do is put masking tape around the butt plate edge and then go at the stock with a sanding block. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 3:10pm
Thanks. Not sure if I want to go sanding and fitting on this stock. The color almost perfectly matches the other wood I already have. Might just leave it as is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 3:19pm
If you do sand, make long strokes and feather it in farther down the butt stock to avoid just rounding the end to fit the plate. That probably doesn't make much sense but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

If you do sand, make long strokes and feather it in farther down the butt stock to avoid just rounding the end to fit the plate. That probably doesn't make much sense but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say!

Thanks, I understand. I work with stocks quite a bit. I have restored many. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 3:50am
The UK Military method (extract from Peter Laidlers notes on fitting a Butt)

Next, the butt plate. All the EMER’s state is that the butt plate should be ‘…evenly seated with the edges below the level of the wood surface of the butt’. In other words, it must be of a smaller silhouette than the butt. I say, with an approx .100” or 3mm gap around its edge and the edge of the wood. As for the fit of the butt plate, then, once again, I say evenly, by taking wood from underneath the butt plate to get an all round even bearing at its edge. If there was a 010 - .015” (ten to fifteen thousandth) that would be acceptable but no more. Oh yes, please, PLEASE don’t polish the bloody thing up. We did it as apprentices to show off our skills but I never ONCE saw one polished to a gleam by an Armourer. A slight linish with emery to get rid of a scrape or roughness, but polish ………………….


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 4:05am
Awesome! Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 2:48pm
Its almost certainly going to need some hand fitting anyway. Most stocks were made intentionally dimensionaly oversized.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 8:27pm
Yup, I know I will have to fit the front of the stock into the socket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2022 at 12:45am
Originally posted by scottz63 scottz63 wrote:

Yup, I know I will have to fit the front of the stock into the socket.

Are you sure you have the correct butt to fit your butt socket ? (there are two-types)

A bit more info from Peter Laidler :

Peter Laidler
Date: Wed 2 Jan 2008 9:52 am

The BUTT. On the face of it, it’s a simple enough job. Just unscrew the old and bash the new one on and screw it up. But that’s JUST what you might do ….., screw it up! If you have a look inside the but socket of the rifle, you’ll see that it is actually tapered and it’s tapered for a good reason. That being to keep the butt TIGHT. All new butts are slightly oversize at the butt socket and what we do is to fit the front end into the butt socket and tap the rear end of the butt, where the heel and toe butt plate screw holes are, with a rawhide mallet so that you start to see witness marks from the rifle butt socket. Then with a rasp or coarse file, rasp away GENTLY until the butt starts to fit into the taper of the butt socket. Keep doing this and you’ll visibly see it going further into the butt socket. Ideally (but certainly on a grenade launching EY rifle), with a last tap of the rawhide mallet the butt should bottom out into the underside of the socket. It should be horizontal to the rifle.

Now for the important bit. The wooden shoulder of the butt, the part that sits proud of the butt socket, MUST be clear of the butt socket and there should be a gap of about 2mm between that edge and the actual butt socket. Have you got that? There MUST be a gap of about 2mm between the steel butt socket and the butt. If there isn’t a gap, then you can be sure that a sliver of wood WILL break away. The butt MUST be tight in the socket and in an ideal world, according to the REME Armourers bible, the wood of the butt MUST (but in civilian circles, should) be proud of the socket by approx 1/16” and the edges should be crisp and sharp. Now, remove the butt and slap on a xxxxing good coating of XG279 or automotive high melting point grease. Some of you will by now have noticed that there are TWO shapes inside top surface, inside the No4 rifle butt socket. The OLD ex SMLE shape with a rounded step on the right and a tapered step on the left and the post 1942 (?, but that’s what we called them …..) shape of two rounded steps.
Officially, and according to our EMER’s, you CAN fit a double rounded stepped butt to a single round/taper step body after adjusting the wood accordingly. But you CANNOT fit a single rounded/taper step butt to a double rounded butt socket. This is because, try as you might, you’ll never truly get it tight ….., or if you do, it won’t last!

That’s the OFFICIAL party line. But if you think that any old, wise and weary old Armourer Sergeant would allow you to wait until a stock of double rounded butts arrived, from stores in England to Korea or Aden or Malaya or wherever you were, you’re WRONG. It was quite common practice to simply dovetail, glue, patch, peg and make off the butts to get to the type you need. Simple isn’t it. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2022 at 7:41am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Are you sure you have the correct butt to fit your butt socket ? (there are two-types)

Oh, I did not know that. Dang it! Lol! I learn something new here everyday.

I don't know what socket my Savage Enfield receiver is. I did not take a pic of the socket and it is sitting at my gunsmiths. I guess it might be the earlier one as it's a 1942 and the article you posted said post 1942 is the change. 

I think my stock is the later type with 2 rounded steps. I might be in trouble. Ouch



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2022 at 12:20pm

As well you found out now - you can fit a double rounded butt into an 'early' butt socket but it will be a lot of extra work and very difficult to get it 'tight'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2022 at 3:15pm
Yes it is, Thanks! I'll have to wait until I get my receiver back to see what I have to deal with.
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