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No4 with strange markings "greek" |
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Rik ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: December 26 2017 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 10 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: December 26 2017 at 5:36am |
he!!o Enfield enthusiasts!
For some time now i own a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 rifle wich has for me some unkown markings. After some research online, it looks to be a 1943 Maltby produced No4 Mk1. And then there is this marking on the top off the receiver wich looks like "EK/SEOS" the only thing i could find online was someone says that possibly it could be used in the greek civil war. Is it possible that this rifle is never been used by the british military, or is the "greek" marking from later in his life? Is there someone who could explain some more of its history? Greetings, Rik ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Goosic ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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Do not fire that rifle!!!
That has been drilled out between the barrel and receiver. Someone has welded the hole closed. If you have fired it,do not continue. It's a Maltby made rifle but someone made it a drill purpose rifle. |
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Goosic ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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Problem number two.
That barrel is not indexed correctly and I noticed a second hole drilled behind the first one and welded over poorly. The stampings on the receiver do not appear to indicate it was intended for Greek anything. I have a Maltby made rifle and my serial number is roughly 220+ more than yours. Mine,just like yours was originally distributed to the British army. Again,and I cannot stress this enough,do not fire that rifle!!! |
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SW28fan ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2859 |
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The Greeks Received a large number of Enfields of various flavors after WWII. Which is why HXP loaded 303 ammo. I suspect it was made into a drill rifle or a Dewat for Collector sale. In some parts of the world centerfire rifles are very hard to legally own. A poster from Cyprus some years back was looking for a Drill rifle so he could legally purchase an example of an Enfield (God Bless Texas)
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Have a Nice Day
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Rik ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: December 26 2017 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Thanks for the replys, and dont worry about the welding. I live in the Netherlands so you can only own deactivated rifles(ther are exeptions) wich means that every moving part is welded, the barrel has been drilled and plugged at the end.
So the two broadarrows on the barrel could indicate that the rifle is used or accepted by the british military? And No4 rifles dont wear the crown markings of the reigning monarch, like the No1 do? |
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Bear43 ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3019 |
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The marks on the receiver have been seen on lots of No 4's that have come out of Greece. It has been suggested in the past that they may be from the Greek Royalist Militia but I have not seen any sort of confirmation of that, just that the rifles came out of Greece.
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Goosic ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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Rik forgot to mention that the rifle was deactivated before posting the pictures and I kinda almost pooped myself when I saw the filled in holes. All better now.
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Bear43 ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3019 |
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I noticed he was from the Netherlands so I had assumed it was a deact.
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Goosic ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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I didn't know that about the Netherlands
I learned something today. |
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Shamu ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 16177 |
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If it was ever accepted into British Military service it would have the "Royal Cypher" (crown & monarch'd initials). It might have been sold direct from the factory to the Greek government though in which case it may have never been in British service.
I miss the "2 broad arrows" in the pictures, but there are several possible explanations for them. 1. Its possible the rifle was re-barreled with an ex military barrel which would have had broad arrow acceptance marks. Does the barrel's serial number match the receivers? 2. look carefully at the "2 arrows" might it be a six pointed star? If so a pair of broad arrows stamped with points touching (or close) is a "sold out of service" (released from military to civilian sale) marking. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Rik ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: December 26 2017 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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The serial number on the barrel matches the one on the receiver. And the barrel has two broadarrows on it and also on the left side of the receiver(no picture) Above there is also a post from me which was late approved. |
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A square 10 ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 13432 |
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i have a friend in the netherlands that shoots his - do not ever assume anything , you did ythe right thing , that would have been a catastrophy waiting to happen here , we need no more fuel on the antigun sentiments here ,
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Bear43 ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3019 |
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Oh yes, Goosic, by all means you did the right thing. I am just so used to seeing rifles from Netherlands that have been deactivated that I paid it no mind. That attitude was not the right one. I sometimes have to remind myself: Never assume.
Rik, I am trying to compile a book on Maltby rifles and your pictures are fantastic! The pic of the left front body is very nice. That is the clearest inspector stamp I have seen on a Maltby rifle so far. If it is okay with you I would like to save these pictures and use them in the future with all credit going to you, of course. Please let me know if that is acceptable. Also, if you would like your actual name to be attributed to the pictures then please PM me with that info and it will be noted. |
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A square 10 ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 13432 |
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im looking at the markings , it apears the EK/S is a diferent stamp than the EOS , perhaps two seperate markings ? i am by no means saying it is so , but it apears they might be two seperate markings - different stamps - different strikings
just a thought , i got nothing at hand to back that up , ill have to dig a bit in my records to see if i can find anything on the markings ,
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SW28fan ![]() Special Member ![]() ![]() Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2859 |
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"EK" in Greek signifies separation "EOS" is a bit tricky it can mean something like existence or being. Perhaps "Out of Service" might be a good translation. I studied Classical Geek so take my translation with a grain (or more) of salt
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Have a Nice Day
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Rik ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: December 26 2017 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Maybe you are right, the ek/s part is much deeper stamped. I haven't looked at it that way before! Here are some pictures of the other broadarrows ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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