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Old surplus ammo: Safe to use? or scrap it? |
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illiana 
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Joined: April 09 2023 Location: PNW, USA Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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 Topic: Old surplus ammo: Safe to use? or scrap it?Posted: April 29 2023 at 5:10pm |
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Howdy folks,
I have some old surplus ammo and I'm wondering if it's worth to shoot, or maybe better to hang on to it for a later day when I can disassemble and reload components? These were inherited from my late uncle, and were probably a bulk buy from a gun show where he thought he was getting a good deal. Frankly, they dont look well kept, so I question the economics of such a purchase, but hey. I'm a bit of a newbie. I've batched it out by markings, and most is wwii stock. Some is marked later, but still has copper primer cups... I'm aware of the issues with using cordite, as well as the old mercuric primers that require a boiling water barrel rinse before standard cleaning. the WRA marked stuff is least likely to have as bad of primers, but is no doubt fueled by cordite. Here are the breakdowns of what I have:   All in all there are about 250 rounds. Somewhere rattling around are a further dozen or so cupro-nickel jacketed bullets, that im sure are dated 42-44, and iirc also Radway made. OH, and I also note there is one of these with a primer that looks like it was struck once...  I plan to dispose of that accordingly, fear not.Bottom line - Ive read some of the old ammo is pretty good shooting, but Ive no way to determine batching... SO do I shoot it and clean up well, or decommission these lil guys for the bullets? - illi |
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Sapper740
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Joined: July 15 2021 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 2:28am |
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If, as you stated the ammo has been poorly stored I wouldn't bother trying to shoot it. I bought a a few hundred rounds of surplus .303 British and 7.65 X 53 Arg. ammunition and had a very high number of duds. If you practice good firearm's safety then every dud requires you to wait 60 seconds before opening the bolt so you could spend a significant portion of your range day counting off the minutes. I pulled the bullets from mine then bought the Berdan to Boxer reloading kit from .22 reloader. So far I've converted the 7.65 X 53 Arg. ammo, used small rifle primers in the primer pocket inserts they supply and reloaded the bullets over modern powder. They all go 'bang' now.
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britrifles
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 3:26am |
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Assume it is all corrosively primed, even the WRA.
I wouldn’t shoot it, not while you can buy PPU cases and bullets, primers and powder, and load your own.
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Doco Overboard
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 5:58am |
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I used to shoot a lot of surplus ammo when it was available. The packets were wrapped in plastic and about 48 rounds to one of them. I never had any problems with misfires however many necks would crack/split from becoming brittle over time I suspect.
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britrifles
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 6:04am |
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Minor clarification, none of these rounds likely have mercuric primers (mercury fulminate), that was generally discontinued by the 1920’s. The problem with mercuric primers is upon firing, the mercury combines with the brass and turns it brittle, making the brass unsuitable for reloading.
All these cartridges are likely primed with potassium chlorate mixture (AKA “corrosive primers”) as was common in WWI and WWII Service ammunition, in the US and UK, both Boxer and Berdan. If you do shoot some of these rounds, flush out the bore with water (preferably hot) immediately after shooting (don’t wait to the next day), dry the bore, then clean with your normal solvent. Do this for the next several days. If you want to reload the cases, wash them out with hot water, to remove the salts. I’d just save these for collecting, nice to have some original WWII Mk 7 service ammunition. I see some Canadian Dominion Arsenal Mk VII in your photo, I’m not sure if DAC used corrosive primers at that time. Much of the Canadian WWII ammunition was loaded with non-corrosive primers. Best assume it is corrosively primed. The WRA .303 will be loaded with Ball C powder, but, again, I’m not sure if a non-corrosive primer was used. US small arms ammunition was corrosively primed to about 1950. |
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 7:25am |
A cautionary tale; last year a friend was given a large quantity of 215gr Mk6 .303 to shoot or giveaway, the necks were very brittle and the decision was made to break up the ammunition and another friend was to have the bullets for his Long Lee. The cordite was heaped into a small pile (I wasn't there so is second hand from my friend who did it) the pile was then lit from a short distance but the flare up was great he ended up in hospital having his arms and face dressed for burns. It reminded me of my days serving with the depot regiment at the School of Artillery when at the end of a days shooting the unused charge bags were placed on the ground in a large triangle with one extended corner which was the place where it would be lit from. Depending on what was to hand a long stick with a match taped to it was used to ignite the triangle; I will add that it didn't stop some young officers from making piles to see how the flames would go!
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Mick
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Shamu
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 1:27pm |
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Regarding keeping it for reloading: That all seems to be Berdan-Primed, & so "non-Reloadable". Most of those are the "unobtanium" large Berdan primers so even if you go through all the hoops to reload it the primers themselves are rarer than chickens teeth.  |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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illiana
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 1:59pm |
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Thanks for all the feedback folks! Im not really setup for reloading atm anyhow, so they'll likely jus sit stored away for the next little while. I'll decide what to do with them later. Thanks for your clarification on the primers too!
Most of the cases stamped Radway look terrible, and wouldnt shock me to see them have case ruptures near the rim or middle of the case. Ive been told the corrosion in superficial, but my experience in material sciences tell me not to trust that opinion. Unfortunately, the canadian Dominion rounds also look generally not well maintained. Doco: I was much younger when I shot my uncle's 303, but I remember case neck splits on almost every one of the rounds he shot... As well as some click-bangs... (unfortunately, he didnt show very good range discipline and wait a full 60 seconds for safety  ) The rounds were probably from the same grab-bag pile I've sorted through here. Almost every round stamped GB (+ the G2 tracers) looks only slightly patina'd, and in rather amazing condition for being 80 years old. If worst comes to it, I'll be trying them. But Britrifles has a good point -- while the PPU is available, I'll buy new. I do see it come and go very quickly, so I'll have to stock up on some when/while I can. |
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britrifles
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 2:48pm |
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Not worth the hassle in my opinion, especially when there is PPU brass available for purchase. Besides, sometimes that old brass will age harden and the necks split after just a few reloads.
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britrifles
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Posted: April 30 2023 at 2:52pm |
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Mick, I’ve burned up a fair bit of old powder, and you have to be careful doing that! I once heaped up a bit too much and the flame went about 15 feet into the air, lasting for what seemed like a few minutes (was probably 20 seconds). I think I had lit about 2 or 3 lbs. That experience taught me to only burn 1/2 lb at a time.
And don’t even think of burning off a pile of black powder, unless you run a long trail of it well away! |
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Stanforth
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Posted: May 01 2023 at 3:29am |
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Many years ago I had a German MP44 in 8mm Kurtz. I had a lot of ammo but when it ran out I had to find a replacement. I decided to see if I could replace the Berdan primers with Boxer. First thing was to remove the old primers (NOTE THIS IN IN USED AMMO) I drilled the primers with a 1/16" drill in a lathe.
To my delight the old primers came straight out and the drill made a perfect flash hole and the boxer primers were good fit. PLEASE NOTE THAT THE ABOVE ARE MY EXPERIENCES NOT A RECOMENDATION.
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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: May 01 2023 at 4:22am |
I have some waste powder to burn up now but will probably wait for the darker winter months to it, probably on Bonfire night 5th November. My first ever attempt was a smallish amount comparable to two 35mm film cannisters worth (remember them?) which I put into an envelope then put that into a larger envelope and then into a further A4 size envelope. The idea being that I could light one corner of the big envelope and retire to safety. During this experiment watched by my wife from the safety of the bedroom window I noticed her pointing to an area near our fence, before I could look to see what she was pointing at a huge fireball erupted from the envelopes, much larger than I ever thought possible accompanied with a very loud WHOOSH. I was aware of sudden movement close to the fence and it transpired that my wife was pointing at two Roe deer whose evening meal of the church hedge had suddenly been rudely interrupted by my activities!
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Mick
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britrifles
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Posted: May 01 2023 at 4:35am |
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I’ve probably burned up 20 or more lbs of powder. Not all at once of course! It was what my Dad had left over from his reloading days in the 1950’s to 1960’s. Some of it had begun to deteriorate. One can had turned to red dust, can had corroded right thru and I had not noticed it. This can be very dangerous and powder can spontaneously combust during the process of aging. When I saw this, I burned up all the rest of his powder. Wasn’t taking any more chances.
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Shamu
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Posted: May 01 2023 at 10:21am |
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I forgot to add any "silver colored" bullets are a bit iffy too, that's a cupro-nickel jacket, rather poorly thought of, as the older solvents couldn't remove the fouling, leading to "nickelled" (& thus unusable for any kind of accuracy, bores)!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: May 01 2023 at 11:00am |
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Not sure if any of the more modern bore solvents will touch the cupronickel fouling. JB bore paste might scrub it out.
Parker Hale had a product called Motty Paste that was used to remove the nickel fouling. Also a bullet grease which was supposed to reduce the tendency to foul the bore. I still have some of both products. Another reason not to shoot this ammo.  |
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illiana
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Posted: May 02 2023 at 4:54pm |
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Heard on all counts, gents! They rounds are safely catalogued and stored away, ne'er to see the light of day, lest i find a place to display my curio.
Im learning now so when I get a 303 I dont jus go an ruin her with garbo ammo. Thank so much again ^_^ - illi |
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Doco Overboard wrote: