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On Ishapore Bayonets, short ones?

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Arminius View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 24 2019 at 1:41pm
he!!o!
 
I am not fixated on bayonets ( ahem ;-) ), but:
 
I suppose, No 1 Mk III ( SMLE ) bayonets will work.
 
No, I do not want to collect bayonets, and I am not interested on a "correct" bayonet. The original bayonet ( 1907 ? ) is too long, I would rather have a shorter one.
 
Would a bayonet for a Rifle Mk V ( Jungle carbine ) fit the Ishapore 2A1?
 
Or are there ( reasonably priced ) bayonets out there, that are shorter, and fit the No 1 Mk III and Ishapore 2A1?
 
Thanks in advance, Hermann
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2019 at 5:39pm
no - the no5 bayo will not fit 

yes the P1907 will and would be correct for the older no1 mk3 but the 2A & 2A1 rifles used the 12" version , they are plentiful and less costly , the earlier ones had a pommel like the P07 the ;ater ones adopted a more square version , 


try - 

http://psmilitaria.50megs.com/


http://joesalter.com/category/Bayonets

http://bayonetconnection.com/

http://www.old-smithy.info/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2019 at 6:34pm
A-Square is right, In India, they never liked the 1907 pattern and much preferred the shorter one. Same length as the Lee Metford bayonet.  (12" blade )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2019 at 10:59am
URGENT! May buy this:
 
Is this correct for the Ishapore 2A1, and it looks to "good".
 
It´s labeled: "Bayonet Enfield MK II RFI"
 
Questions:
 
1 - does it fit the Ishi? R.F.I. is "Rifle factory Ishapore"?
 
2 - are there fake ones in existence?
 
3 - is this reconditioned?
 
4 - seller asks 100
 
Buy or not?
 
TIA, Hermann
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2019 at 11:22am
Am I right, that it would be the same, or fit both, .303 and .308 rifles?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2019 at 2:39pm
Looks good to me.

Remember the Indian rifles were made much later than anyone else's were, up to 1975! So a late bayonet on a police rifle may well look that good.

Price I don't know, 100 in what currency? & We can't be much help with prices where you are either.
I bought a full length original for a little less that that in the US a year or so ago.

"Externally the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifle is based upon (and is almost identical to) the .303 British calibre SMLE Mk III* rifle, with the exception of the distinctive “square” (10 or 12 round) magazine and the use of the buttplate from the 1A (Indian version of the FN FAL) rifle. The 2A was designed to allow the British Pattern 1907 (P'07) sword bayonet used on the SMLE MkIII to be attached. There were other differences to the Ishapore 2A/2A1 rifles that include the use of improved steel (to handle the increased pressures of the 7.62mm NATO round), and a redesigned extractor to cope with the rimless round. Production of these rifles started in early 1960s and is believed to have been discontinued in 1975. The original (2A) design incorporated the Lee–Enfield rear sight which has graduations out to 2000 yards. The re-designated "Rifle 7.62mm 2A1" incorporated a more realistic 800 meter rear sight. The stock is recycled from the No. 1 Mk. III armory stock, with the addition of a cross screw forward of the magazine well. Some stocks were salvaged from existing surplus and show artificer repairs where rotted or damaged wood has been replaced. This repair is especially evident with the recoil draws (the area the receiver contacts when recoiling after the shot) that often failed over time due to the rifle being rack-stored butt down / muzzle up, which allowed oils and grease to migrate downwards into this critical area."
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2019 at 3:16pm
I´ve already bought it.
 
If it fit´s, and is the real thing, I have a nice rig of Ishapore kit.
 
It its refinished, I don´t care.
 
If it doesn´t fit … don´t know. But looks good from my short search on the net.
 
I am still looking for a 12 rd mag, but I am very happy with the new 10 rd mag from Goosic. ( Thanks Goosic Handshake)
 
Thanks, Shamu!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2019 at 6:56pm
good buy - you got one of the earlier and yes it will be correct and fit just fine , RFI is one of the indian factories [also NWR , MIL , JU ] 
perfect 12.2" version no fuller and false edge , not a shortened long blade 

from my british and commonwealth bayonets reference book -
India Pattern no1 mkII*, early style pommel , RFI on the ricasso but still has the crown over GRI 
scabbard would be a shortened no1 
should date to 1947 production , the squared pommels came out that year as well , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2019 at 1:48am
Thanks!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2019 at 4:13pm
he!!o! Got my Model 37 webbing "frog":
 
it´s TIGHT around the scabbard!
 
Was, with force Ouch, able to push the bayonet scabbard into the frog … until the "knob" for holding the scabbard contacted the "holding straps".
 
I have NO idea, how I shall get the "holding knob" on the scabbard between the two "holding straps".
 
I presume, by turning it in the straps?
 
It´s REALLY tight!
 
As it is, the securing strap won´t hold the bayonets handle, it sits too high in the "frog".
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2019 at 7:26pm
Insert then turn the scabbard so that the button is towards the back (belt loop) of the frog. 

The cotton has likely shrunk over time. Judicious and careful use of a spoon handle (don't use anything sharp like a screwdriver blade) used like a shoe horn will help to get it in there.

 The web weave will stretch a little at a time, so be patient and keep working it. Then when it is shoved down in there far enough, turn the it so the button is back towards the front.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 4:13am
I didn't know where to put this...but since theres discussion about pointy bits here, I'll post on this thread.
When my pard from Blighty was here to Ice fish 2 years ago..he bought a Russian SKS,(1953) & it resides in my locker. When he was here for deer hunt this past Nov, he decided he wanted to put a tapco aftermarket stockset on it..but we couldn't find one. This January, he was here for Ice fishing & we found one, so we put it on. We removed the bayonet. It is now surplus, as is the original wood stock. If anyone is interested - they will go cheap!
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2019 at 7:01am
Yeah the Pat 37 frogs are tighter than a bull's bum in fly time. Its normal. The loop is to high & I have no idea why.
The short Indian bayonets were just regular ones with the blade cut down originally, but later they were made that way. The blades don't have the groove in them which is one way of telling.
I found this leather reproduction frog which has a little strap instead of the slotted band. Unfortunately its not an exact replica of anything, more like a copy.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2019 at 6:35pm
"...The cotton has likely shrunk over time. Judicious and careful use of a spoon handle (don't use anything sharp like a screwdriver blade) used like a shoe horn will help to get it in there..."

simon has it correct and spot on , the webbing has shrunk over time and disassociation with its scabbard , it needs to be gently stretched and coaxed into position , take you time , there is no hurry , but it was meant to be mated , the stud will find is place in the button hole as you get it fitted , 

huh - in the reread maybe i need to try a paperback novel ??????????????? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2019 at 6:01am
There are actually 2 versions of the "pat 58" (green) frog, one has a small slit in the upper strap, the other doesn't you just use the space between the top & bottom straps.
The Pat '37 (Khaki) one has only one.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2019 at 6:50pm
i had a lot of good photos of mine once upon a time - down to this one example of the frog on my P1913 but you can see how they are to fit 

this one has the button hole - i used that , and the double strap - the stud can be fit between those as well , 



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