Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > After Market Enfields
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Parker Hale 5c
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Parker Hale 5c

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 3803
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Parker Hale 5c
    Posted: September 23 2020 at 8:46am
I installed a Parker Hale 5c on a No4 Mk1 full length barreled, faux L42A1 I have. I did have a 4x Leupold on it prior and it was a very consistent shooting rifle. It would average 2" groups @ 100 yards with 150 Hornady Spire Points. It was raining some this morning, but I had to try out the new rig. I was using 6" paper plates @25 yards. I was on paper with no adjustments! .68" three shots group. As I mentioned, this rifle shoots pretty good. Although I wasn't planning on it this trip, I went to the 100 yard range. Five shot group was 2.66". I was very satisfied after this first outing as this Parker Hale site is way different than the one I have on my No1. Both really fun! Thanks, Goosic!
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 12:10pm
So now you have a Faux L39A1!Thumbs Up
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 3803
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 12:56pm
Zed. I bought this rifle several years back once I became addicted (or re-addicted) to Enfields. For which I blame this site! This site made me look into the history of this venerable rifle. Recently, I realize that I was calling it a faux L42A1 when it wasn't. Help me. It's a cobbled together (I assume) No4 Mk1 that has a full length barrel, furniture cut down just proud of the front barrel band, by a very respectable Brit living in Canada. It also has a walnut cheek piece, and a non fully rotating King Screw. in .303. Yes. It is a faux L39A1 in .303.
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 5854
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 7:00pm
I am very glad and pleased that it has worked out for you. Enjoy it...
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 11:27am
Honkytonk; I think it's fair to say that if you've got the scope fitted, it's in the L42 style and with the Parker Hale rear sight it's in the style of the L39.
The L39 has the same 7.62 hammer forged heavy barrel and woodwork as the L42; but it is built on the No4Mk2 platform with the trigger mounted on the receiver. I was built for military shooting teams. The L42 was the service sniper rifle built on original No4Mk1T's.
Alongside the L39 and L42; using similar spec barrels but No8 Style woodwork are the Enforcer, supplied to Police forces with generally a Pecar scope, and the Envoy, for civilian target use.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: Y Felinhelli
Status: Offline
Points: 894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

The L39  is built on the No4Mk2 platform with the trigger mounted on the receiver. 


I think I posted these previously, but anyway :

An extract of notes on a presentation by Peter Laidler "The L39"


I was having a browse through the Small Arms Committee minutes relating to the L39A1 rifle the other day and found some bits and pieces that I think I ought to pass on. Including some things that I never realized either!

The first bit is that contrary to what I firmly believed, that the rifles were built up to new rifle specification from ‘new’ components (including new barrels obviously) including bodies but the committee minutes state ‘….rifles converted from the Rifle No4 Mk1/2 and 2’ too. I was under the impression from the Armourers technical blurb that all L39’s were made ‘as new’. But this is clearly not so because Mk1/2 type L39’s will exist.

This COULD mean that L39’s were made from brand new, unused ex c.1955 Fazakerley bodies. It could also include USED ex .303” Mk2 bodies. It could also Mk2/1 rifles unbreeched and rebarrelled at the point of conversion to L39 at Enfield and it COULD include bodies converted to Mk1/2 but UNUSED since conversion at Fazakerley in the late 40’s to mid 50’s. However, no mention is made of Mk1/3 bodies.

Paragraph 3 of the build standard states that the rifles will be fitted with the stock butt of the No4 rifle, ‘….identical except that a small recess is machined under the knuckle to hold spare foresight blades in a suitable container. There you have it. The correct, ‘as-issue’ butt is that of the No4, modified as detailed above. But (if you’ll excuse the pun), more later….!

Para 8 of the build standard also states that the magazine will be the standard .303” magazine that will be used as a loading platform. It goes on to state that the rifle may be fitted with a 10 round 7.62mm magazine at the users request

Now here’s a surprise…….. Para 20 states that certain rifles are fitted with a special factory size 00 bolt head. ‘……..at the factory only, it is used when assembly tolerances require a smaller head than a ‘0’. The bolt head is special and is not provisioned as a spare’. There’s a thing to get your know-it-all mates coughing into their beer!

Instruction 1 to the committee says that the first 50 EX type rifles (or should this be XL rifles?) were produced and procured with trigger pressures set to the SERVICE limits of 1st - 3 to 4 lbs and 2nd – 5 to 6.5 lbs. But subsequent series production is to be set at 1st - 2.5 to 3.5 lbs and 2nd – 4 to 5.5lbs pull. To cater for this permissible adjustment, the face of the sear can be adjusted to a maximum angle of 80 degrees ( to decrease the sear load pressure). Additionally, magazine catches with an additional sear spring location recess BELOW the original will be provided or may be encountered. There, that’s the answer if you have one on yours!

Now, in conjunction with the civilian target shooting world and the Army Rifle Association, the Light Weapon Defect and Modification Committee has agreed that build standard of the L39 rifle may be altered to include the following:
A commercial SLING SWIVEL can be fitted in place of the front trigger guard screw
A commercial STOCK FORE-END can be fitted using commercially or UK Military recognized practice to ensure the correct bedding and assembly of the barrel and body
STOCK BUTT can be replaced with the service No5, No8, No4 variants and a commercial ‘monte-carlo type with suitable face pieces (I think they mean cheek rests…..) dependent on the competitors competitive situation (type of competition rules ?)
TUNNEL FORESIGHTS of the PH FS-22A or any similar trade pattern WITH THE CORRECT DOVETAIL ARRANGEMENT. Can be used.
REARSIGHT: Any make of sight, similar to the PH 5C or AJP 4/47 which can be readily adapted can be used providing that it does so without resorting to any alteration of any kind to the rifle.

The inspection of any altered or modified L39 rifle will be undertaken by the periodic REME Armourers inspection which we still call the PRE. They will take into account the competitive nature of the weapon and their inspection will concern only the safety and mechanical condition. Any weapon that includes any deviation from the build standard will be returned to that standard prior to disposal or return to Ordnance.

Well, there it is! What is quite interesting is the fact that no sights are fitted to this weapon according to the build sheet standard, not even a standard backsight! Even to the point that Field and Base workshops required to test them for accuracy were to have available a PH5C sight in order to do so (using the authority of the SA Committee to purchase one!). The report also states that no government stores are to be used outside the build sheet standard. So this means that even if you just wanted to use a standard No4 Mk1 type (or an L42 metric version) backsight, you weren’t allowed. But I don’t expect anyone ever abided by those rules.

There, another few useless bits of Lee Enfield knowledge that you didn’t know about. Anyone want me to go through the L42 blurb too?

 


Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 3803
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 2:25pm
Please remember! I absolutely know it is neither a L42A1 nor a L39! It is a No4 Mk1 that I purchased several years ago. It has a full length barrel, cut down forestock and a walnut cheek piece on a stock. I bought it this way. It's .303, and I had installed an Addley no-drill scope mount, and mounted a Leupold 1.5x4 straight tube. It is now the same rifle with a P-H 5c instead of the scope. Once I found the right load, it's a pretty consistent shooter. 
Back to Top
W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September 21 2014
Location: Ojai CA
Status: Offline
Points: 342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2021 at 1:33pm
We can call these guns "Replica's"  I am building an NRA Sporter "Replica" right now based on a 03A3 barreled action.  I have all the correct piece parts for the stock and it is going to be a really nice "Shooter" that looks like an NRA Sporter.  I am a "Shooter," not so much a "Collector.."

My L39 "Replica" came to me as a Parker Hale Standard Sporter. The barrel was excellent so I found a handguard and fitted it and the barrel band so it looked right. Refinished the wood and kind of matched the 3 pieces so they didn't look bad. Three different kinds of wood so virtually impossible to get an exact match. You can see the Butt stock is much darker than the rest of the wood. I don't know what the Fore End is made from, It is not stained it came out that color with only Tru Oil, it smelled like Cocobolo when sanding it. The handguard was some "light wood," and had to be stained to match the Fore End. The stock and fore end were varnished and I literally took a finish sander to them to remove the Paint which was 1/8" thick in most places and to remove some of the "Less than Major" Dings and Dents in the wood.Tthe most prominent ones are still there.. 


I looked at a PH 5C but could bring myself to spend $400+ on a sight for a $200 gun so I made an adapter and installed a Redfield Olympic Rear Sight that I got off Ebay for $70. It works very well!



The gun shoots well, and I shot my best Short Range Silhouette score of 32/40 with it using Lyman 314299's and 16 gr of 2400 powder.  I also shoot Long Range Silhouette with it..

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 3803
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2021 at 3:53pm
I like what you've done! And it's a shooter!
Back to Top
VBULL View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 02 2021
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VBULL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2021 at 7:28pm
In 1995 I purchased an L39A1 in the US.  I shot in NRA Long range matches all the way from Florida to Camp Perry.  The Sierra 155 grain 1992 Palma bullet had just been released to the public and I had a box.  I worked up the load in cool weather which proved to be too hot in the North Carolina sun at a 1000 yard match at Camp Butner.  On the last relay I decided to shoot the L39A1 with an AJ Parker Twin Zero rear sight and tunnel foresight.   No competitor there had even seen or heard of such a rifle.  I had the zero figured out to a T and the first sighter landed on paper.  The old L39A1 started laying them in the right place much to the astonishment of all watching.   The scorer wanted to know what the he!! was the load because it shot so flat with the 155 Palma MK.  The hot weather had the load jacked up to about 2900 and did it shoot!  Sadly about round 15  the cases
Showed signs of separation so I had to stop short of 20 rounds for record.   Little did I know that I had drawn a crowd behind me to watch the rifle.  I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to explain to everyone just exactly “what Kinda damn rifle is that”
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4645
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2021 at 10:32am
Welcome to the forum VBull.
Sounds like you had some fun with your L39A1. 
Do you still own the rifle? We would love to see some photos of it. 
Also I am interested in whatever load data you have. 
I have an L39A1; with the TZrear sight. I use the SMK Palma 155 gr bullet. Currently using 40 grains of Vihta Vouri N140 powder.
Unfortunately I don't have access to the longer ranges at the moment; so only get to shoot at 200 metres.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
VBULL View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 02 2021
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VBULL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2021 at 5:33pm
Responding to your question about the load data that I used, it was DuPont 4895 and slightly exceeded the 1992 Palma load that  the  Americans supplied that year for the Palma match at Raton.  The Palma committee had asked Winchester to supply the .308 cases.  Winchester’s loading equipment was incapable of producing match brass because it needed rebuilding.  They retooled for this run and produced extremely high quality brass. It was headstamped 1992 Palma.  I used that brass and Federal 210 Match primers.  I do not have the L39A1 now.  I do have a .303 Wesley Richards Sporter circa 1915.  The only No. 4 that I kept was regulated by Bill Wilde and used at the DCRA matches in 1980-81.  H414 has given me the best accuracy in the .303 hands down.  I use the 174 Sierra Matchking at 2450 FPS.  Occasionally you will find a .303 that likes VV140 best.  I had an unfired Irish Contract #4 that shot so accurately that no one believes me when I tell them (using H414. ).  It easily outshot every National Match Garand that I owned and gave my National Match 1903 a run for the money.  When I was writing back in the 1990’s I had correspondents all over the Commonwealth giving me information on regulating Lee Enfields.  Oh, for the Days of Old when the match bulletin specified that “only the British Service Rifle Numbers 3 and 4 shall be used in this event.”
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2021 at 5:04am
Welcome to the forum VBull.  Great to have another shooter on the forum!

The CMP introduced the “Games” rifle matches some years back (early 2000’s I think) which includes the Vintage Military Rifle Match.  Any “foreign” military bolt action rifle may be used.   The match is shot at 200 yards on the NRA SR Target (or at 100 on the SR-1 Target). 

For obvious reasons, the LE is not well known here in the US (not invented here) and few LEs will be seen at the CMP matches.  The M1917 is most common and is a good shooter.  

I’ve had success with my No. 4 in the VMR matches.  I have not tried H414, my match load is 40 grains of Varget with 174 gr SMK, it will hold the X ring on the SR Target.  The accuracy of the No. 4 will turn heads and gets noticed at these matches.

I also have two DCRA 7.62 No. 4 rifles (assembled at Long Branch), they shoot very well with 40 gr Varget and 168 SMK’s.  Both have PH 5C rear sights and I’ve shot these out to 600 yards with very good accuracy, but just not competitive with F-Class rifles.   Can’t be used in the VMR matches as these were not “as issued” to the troops.  

A supply of new barrels will become critical for these rifles to win at matches.  Criterion made a run of No. 4 barrels but not available at the moment.  Hopefully they will be available again, I will buy several.  




Back to Top
W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September 21 2014
Location: Ojai CA
Status: Offline
Points: 342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2021 at 2:18pm
 I had correspondents all over the Commonwealth giving me information on regulating Lee Enfields. 

Used in the same context as the 2nd Amendment IE; "Well Regulated Militia" 

as in,,, a well "Trained Militia" with Rifles "sighted in" or "regulated" to a distant target.  

A Naval Gunnery Term.

It's good we have a Brit who can use the English Language in proper context, so that we Yanks can better understand our founding documents. Thumbs Up

Actually Webster's Dictionary Def #2 for "Regulation." to regulate or sight in a gun to a specific target.

In that context it doesn't not mean a Militia with lots of Rules and "Regulations." It means,,, a militia that is "Ready to Fight!"

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
Back to Top
VBULL View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 02 2021
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VBULL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2021 at 3:44pm
The English use the term “regulate” in the same sense that the Americans use “accurize” as you must well know.  I used it in that sense.   I am an American who recognized that the British military  used the same rifle from 1888 until 1957 and wondered why.  It has been a long and fascinating study.
Back to Top
W.R.Buchanan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September 21 2014
Location: Ojai CA
Status: Offline
Points: 342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 10 2021 at 10:43am
The British used the Brown Bess Musket from 1720 to 1830,,, probably because it worked as well or better than anything else available at the time,,, thus they saw no need to change ... 

Also their battle tactics were all built around that weapon, but change always came slowly to their Military.

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.