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Powder type and projectiles weight

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philtno View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote philtno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2020 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

 Philtno, did you have the same rear sight setting and point of aim on the target with both the 42 grains of Varget and 37 grains of H4895?  

The muzzle velocity with 42 gr Varget would be about 2600 fps vs 2500 fps with 37 gr H4895.  I would try 40.0 and 41.0 gr Varget.  

The groups look good, I suspect you won’t see much difference in accuracy with these loads within a range of 2 to 3 grains.  

As to the benefits of trickle charging to get the loads dead nuts on, you can prove to yourself that even charges that vary by  +/- 0.2 grains will be barely noticeable on the target, at least out to 200 yards.  I did this by shooting 10 shot groups of carefully weighed charges for 38.0, 39.0, 40.0 and 41.0 grains of IMR 4064.  I then calculated the mean point of impact at 100 yards for each of these 4 loads and plotted the results.  It was surprisingly linear with the elevation MPI increasing at 0.83 inches per grain.  So, if your powder measure can throw charges to within 0.2 grains, this equates to only 0.16 inch variation in elevation.  For a rifle that is grouping at 2 MOA (2 inches at 100 yards) you won’t notice this small difference.  There are other factors that cause the variation in vertical dispersion.  

Now, if your shooting an heavy barrel match rifle out to 600 yards and beyond, trickle charging to get the charges to less than +/-0.1 grains is probably worth it.  Someone on another forum claimed he loaded his cases to within +/- 0.005 grains, I guess he used an xacto knife to cut that last stick of powder and shave it down to get it that good.  


Hi Britrifles,
Thanks a lot for the really good info and the results of your experimentation with various loadings.
To answer your question, no I can't guarantee I was using the same exact settings for the rear sight.  I have to admit that my expectations are pretty simple when I shoot....it groups well, I'm happy....it doesn't group well, I'm grumpy Big smile
I take a few notes but I'm not in such a total control of my shooting to be able to provide the same level of analysis Wink
This being said, I like experimenting as well and try to replicate o use the other shooters' experience......
I understand that, at the distance I'm shooting, probably half a grain of powder would probably not make much difference....on the other hand, I'm of the opinion that, unless you try to control as many parameters as possible, you can't complain if the results are either not consistent or simply not what you expect.  Plus, and that's probably what drives the most, IT'S FUN....it's fun putting efforts in measuring the powder exactly, setting the bullet the way you think/heard/read it should be, trying other powder, other projectiles....it's part of the hobby....and I don't see myself abandoning this to favour any "yeaaaaaa,naaaahhh, she'll be roooiit" way of doing things.
What you're doing with the chart you provided is really AMAZING..., I'm serious....and I admire people committing to that level of marksmanship....I wish I would reach that level of control/understanding of how it works when I pull the trigger...one day LOL
 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2020 at 6:44am
I had done the test originally for a completely different reason.  I did not have a Chronometer at the time and wanted to compare the MPI of my handloads with MK 7 service ammunition.  The other data points shown on the plot are various Canadian service loads, SA PMP, Greek HXP and PMC Match ammo.  Ignore the horizontal axis values (grains) for the service/commercial ammo data points.
 
In the search to identify causes of inaccuracy and improve my shooting, I don't want to worry about things that have little or no impact.  I spent way to long tinkering with loads, thinking this would improve accuracy, searching for that "magic" load that shrunk my groups considerably.  My conclusion was after 20 years of doing this, the rifle will perform well with a wide range of powders and charge weights.  The biggest cause of inaccuracy is the shooter, unless there is something very wrong with the rifle.   
 
I later went back to this experiment to conclude that precise weighing of charges has very little benefit.  If you handload 150 or more rounds a week, it gets very tedious and time consuming to trickle charge and weigh every charge.  I'm not the only one that has concluded this, many of the top competitive Service Rifle (including vintage class) shooters do not weigh charges, at least for matches out to 200 yards.  I do periodically check weight of the thrown charge, and certainly for the first few rounds I'm loading to be sure I've set the measure correctly.  Typically, the charge is to within +/- 0.1 grains, occasionally 0.2 grains of the desired weight.   
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2020 at 6:57am
Great point. I shoot probably 400 rounds through various Enfield during the summer months. Our range is 100 yards. I pretty much limit my hunting "comfort zone" distance to 200 yards, meaning, if it's past that, I'll probably pass, unless it is that "pink mist", standing broad side shot. Even then, unless I have a rest (tree, fence post) I would pass. I reload probably on average 50 rounds in a sitting, but in stages. Deprime, size, champher/debur, tumble one day. Prime another day. Powder and projectile the final sitting. I have never trickled, but check every 5th powder charge on the scale to see if everything is good, or if I "feel" anything but a smooth pull on the powder measurer lever. So far, it seems to work for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2020 at 12:58pm
I invested in a Lyman electronic balance/doser system last year. It works really well; you type in the required weight and the repeat function and it will give accurate loads. 
It is very handy when loading test weights; makes life easy!

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2020 at 2:37pm
Yikes! Buddy bought one of those! I use an old and trusted RCBS 505 balance bar scale... and equally old RCBS powder measurer, and an ancient Case press. RCBS dies and she!! holder. My polisher is an old Thumler Tumbler loaded with iguana bedding and Brasso... I bought that rock tumbler 28 years ago for one of my girls... when she outgrew it, she gave it to me.
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