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Present for Dad, Enfield Rifle Build

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colt_45 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 18 2022 at 9:52pm
Greetings EF.com!

Just found out about this forum, and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a Godsend for me.  A year ago my Dad asked me to re-do his old deer rifle.  Well, it's been a year and I'm still kind of stuck on go.  The plan is to use only the action... new barrel, stock, trigger, scope mounts, ect.  Long story short, I'm still trying to absolutely verify exactly what I'm working with.  My assumption is that I have a Winchester Model 1917, NOT with the flat floorplate.  This detail is important for ordering my stock.  Have been trying to work with Boyd to verify what type of barrel channel can be cut as I do not want to go back with the military barrel.

I would really appreciate it f anyone could please verify all of my assumptions are correct.  Additionally, I'd love to see pictures of any and all redone 1917's, specifically redone as hunting/sporting rifles.  I'm sure there is an area of this website for bragging or showing off pictures, but I haven't found it yet.

Thank you very much everyone!




Colton

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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2022 at 4:38pm
I hate to be the one to tell you, but your rifle is not a Lee Enfield (the subject of this forum).  However, there are some members here knowledgeable with the Model 1917 that may be able to help.  You might find more information on the CMP Forum. 

This is a common misunderstanding, the “Enfield- Rifles” Forum must be about Enfield’s, right?  And the US Model of 1917 is in fact a Enfield designed rifle that the US modified to fire the .30-06 cartridge.  However, when you look at the fine print, you will see this is the website for everything “Lee Enfield”.  A very different rifle.  

OK, having said that, is there any of our members that can help here? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stumpkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2022 at 7:06pm
^That.  The design was based on the M1914 Enfield (some alterations for the .30-06 cartridge).

You have a sporterized version of a M1917 made by Winchester.  Someone milled off the rear sight channel/ears and without better detail it's hard to say what else may have been altered or exchanged for "sportification" purposes.  You may be taking on a more custom rebuild than you like - like having to machine a scope mount to fit the existing holes if they are not placed to use a "stock" version.  Or inletting a stock blank rather than a pre-inlet offering.

Some years back (40?) I bought a "bubba-ed" Mauser K98 cheap figuring I could finish a "custom sporterization" someone had started.  The wood I could do (my father-in-law was a cabinetmaker and I had shop use).  Then I learned why they sold it "as is" and eventually I did the same.  I didn't have the machine shop tools to work the metal or drill precise holes (not even a drill press) . . . and a Remington 788 was cheaper than the raising costs of tooling up.  

Go for it.  The skills, once learned, will stick with you.  Just go in eyes wide open.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2022 at 1:15pm
and actually the descendent of the experimental british rifle pattern 1913 which because of the first world war was modified for the 303 cartridge and redesignated the pattern 1914  , then it was modified to the 3006 as the model 1917 for the US contracts , oddly enough the british bayonet stayed as a pattern 1913 as it was already in production albeit in very limited quantities , the model 1917 bayonets were so designated and include the excess P13s remarked for US use to M17s , 

produced in the US as the pattern 1914 and model 1917 by three companies , winchester [made the fewest] remington and eddystone [made the most] till the contracts ran out , it lived on after in a modified version but im not familiar with these , 

not to dwell - but as an aside my father was stationed on saipan , the marines there were issued M17s , he remembered it as "the american enfield" he wanted one , he bought an enfield - it was a no1 mkIII of early WWI mfgr , he didnt realize the difference till we discussed it after i started collecting enfields , a lot of WWII vets did not fully understand the progression of the rifle in those times - it was what you were issued , i suspect the differance between the M1903/M1917 and the M1 was easy from bolt to auto load but as collectors we now grasp what made no differance to them back then - it just had to shoot 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2022 at 10:08pm
The descent of the M 17 from the Boer Mauser via the P 13 & P 14.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2022 at 3:46am
I tell you, the boys at Enfield Lock did a great job on the P13 design, including the work on the potent  .276 Rimless cartridge.  They were on the right track.  Add a 10 round magazine and they would have had a very formidable rifle in WWII.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colt_45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2023 at 11:58am
Thank you everyone for the help.  Ok, I'm finally going to get my build going... had a daughter last year which made me completely lose sight of the project.  While trying to order my stock from Boyds, it asks me if the rifle is a P14, P17, or P17 Flat Floorplate.  I'm assuming I need to select P17; I assume when they say "Flat Floorplate" they don't literally mean the steel on the floor plate but the general shape of the bottom of the stock, and mine has the curve.  Anyway, if any Lee-Enfield folks know the answer to this question I would certainly appreciate it.

Thank You,

Colton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2023 at 2:59pm
What are you going to do for sights? Put a scope back on it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doco Overboard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2023 at 4:33pm
Ive re barrelled/retro fitted more than a few M17 P14 rifles. Most were back to military trim but have sported some too.
What you have there is a US model 1917 rifle.
A popular mod was to forge/ iron out the bottom metal for a more streamlined appearance.
You can ID your bottom metal simply by looking at it to see if it has a pronounced step towards the front of the floor plate before the action screw. If it has a slight crook in it, more than likely its originally configured. The p14 box capacity is 5 and the m17 6 minus the rim for the 06 cartridge.
Keep in mind mag boxes, floor plates, bottom metal /followers etc will not interchange between the two variants nor will the originally fitted stocks, however a p14 stock can be modded to work with a M17 action with some minor in-letting/fitting.
The rear of the barrel stubs between the two differ with the p14 having a slightly narrower profile where it meets the body I have found personally. The barrel reinforce/bearing will need to be opened up very slightly with a 17 barrel/body in a 14 stock probably due to manufacturing tolerances.
Without a barrel mated up to a body, a 14 bolt can be fitted to either stripped action and vice versa the primary difference is a 14 bolt has a larger bolt face than the 17 to accommodate the rimmed 303 cartridge which is popular for mag cartridges.
Bolt stop parts will not interchange due to the extractor design as well but the entire ejector box will interface as a whole dependent on cartridge.
There are very slight differences at the rear of the bottom metal between the two particulary wher they slim down towards the trigger bow. Both in size of the metal and the stock bedding at the radius to the rear of the floor plate. but they are minor almost unnoticeable unless you worked on them a bit.
Both barrel tenons have square 10 tpi, nominal diameter at reinforce of 1.325 and p14 tenon .720 and m17 .800 extractor cuts are .275 for the 14 and .410 for the 17
The CMP used to stock both CBI barrels for the two rifles at one time but they were phosphated/ceramic coated which would have to be cleaned off prior to bluing if you could get one from them yet.
It would be a shame to cut one of those down, unless it wound up with a muzzle defect or something or for a sporter becuase they may no longer even have them available as far as I know anymore.

The good thing about the two of them without getting into whats the better rifle is that many parts/spares are available for the two of them minus uncut stocks, barrels and rear hand-guards anymore.
I'm sure your dad would be very happy to have his old deer rifle rejuvenated for what ever purpose he chose if that was his wish, some things just cannot be bought and projects like yours are one of them.

Good Luck on your endeavor!

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