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New member - Charlotte NC area

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Info for New Enfield Owners
Forum Description: Are you new to Enfields? Check out some of the how-to's submitted by our members!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10029
Printed Date: July 08 2020 at 3:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New member - Charlotte NC area
Posted By: Sidneyw
Subject: New member - Charlotte NC area
Date Posted: September 27 2019 at 9:59am
Greetings Everyone, 
just signed up new member, own a No4 Mk1 for more than 25 years. Shot it once and put in storage until 10 days ago.  I have other long guns Lever, AR, AK, M1A and few shotguns for upland birds.

My Enfield does not have many markings like others I have seen.  No4 Mk1 is quite visible; BFXXXX stamp on the bolt handle; T25xxx (serial number I presume) and that's about it; it is a two grove.

Took it to an indoor range nearby; 25 yds shooting S&B 174 gr FMJ and it was not bad at all after all these years in storage.  I just wanted to make sure it is on paper before I take it to 100 or 200 yds outdoor range.  

Plan on reloading (on and off I have been reloading since late 70's). Read about using both 7.62x39 projectile and powder into 303 case for plinking  I really like to hear more.  

Regards,


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Sidney



Replies:
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 27 2019 at 10:35am
Sounds like a Savage or Long Branch made gun?
It sounds "scrubbed", which usually indicates an Indian refurbish at some point.
Pics would be a big help in getting a positive iD.
If you reload avoid boat tails till you check it out, some 2 groove don't like boat tails


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: September 27 2019 at 12:43pm
Welcome from Brandon, Manitoba, Canada!


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 27 2019 at 4:43pm
Thanks for the comeback and welcome.

The handload will just be for plinking fun. I don't have much expectation. The reduced light load could be good to teach my 10 years old grandson. Took me awhile to figure out the photo uploads.
The target was 25 yards out; the extraction cycles were smooth.  First 3 rounds off-hand, after that I used a rest; lighting in indoor range is not too good as you know. I have yet to get used to the sight picture.






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Sidney


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: September 27 2019 at 9:18pm
Welcome from Texas

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 28 2019 at 8:59am
Howdy from Phoenix Arizona. 
The serial number on the rifle has it being made at the Fazackerly plant, 1944/45. The bolt,while not matched to the rifle,was made at the Fazackerly plant as well. It was originally in a No5Mk1,(Jungle Carbine). The 300/600 yard  L flipsight is very sufficient for your plinking intentions. The two groove barrel came off of either a Canadian Long Branch or a Stevens Savage No4Mk1*.  Is there any FTR Mark's on the receiver in front of or behind the No4Mk1 stamp?  Is the rifle complete with full furniture?  Do you have any background history of the rifle when it was passed to you? Some fundamentals here would be for you to have the headspace checked,along with having the bolt inspected for equal engagement on both rear locking lugs into the receiver itself by a competent gunsmith, knowledgeable with the Enfield rifles. 


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 28 2019 at 9:38am
Hi Goosic,
Thanks for your reply.
1) The T-29235 marking is also on the barrel but it was located at the bottom.
2) No FTR marks found.
3) It came complete with full furniture.
4) No idea of history (picked it up more than 25 years ago for $60)

I have had concern on headspace, but the 15 rounds I fired last week did not have extraction issue, and the spent cases seem to look ok.  I disassembled it last night; it was covered with sort of spray paint done years ago from barrel down to the receiver.  

Edited:

I looked around this morning and found this  http://www.enfieldcollector.com/serials.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.enfieldcollector.com/serials.html
Quote  No.4 and No.5 rifle serial numbers can readily identify manufacturers. British No.4 rifles have five numbers, usually after one or two letter prefixes. The same letter prefix(es) were used by Maltby, Fazakerley & BSA Shirley, A to Z then AA, AB to AZ, then BA to BZ, CA to CZ &c. Maltby rifle serial numbers commence with a number '1', Fazakerley with a '2' and Shirley with a '3', e.g. 1xxxx for Maltby, 2xxxx for Fazakerley and for Shirley, 3xxxx, after the letter prefix. Late Shirley numbers then supposedly ran A4000 to A7999 and with PS prefixes at the very end of production. Post-war Fazakerley No.4 rifles had PF letter prefixes.

It would seem as you indicated; but no certain if it was No5 jungle.  I'll be getting the neck size die next week and load up some reduced light weight to try out. Still, the 2 groove puzzles me.





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Sidney


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 28 2019 at 10:49am
The two groove barrel, being that it has the same serial number as the receiver, would indicate that it was assembled from the factory that way. Fairly rare but not uncommon.  The serial number on the bolt handle does indicate that the bolt assembly itself was,at one point in time,fitted to a No5Mk1 rifle,mid to late 1947. 
The paint,is it of a oil based green hue?



Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 28 2019 at 1:11pm
Feels and looks oil based in black.  I removed most of it using brake cleaning fluid, and coated the surface with engine oil for now.  I did use the bullet insect to barrel test for wear before I shot it, and it looked very good. 

Thanks,


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Sidney


Posted By: 42rocker
Date Posted: September 28 2019 at 10:09pm
Welcome 
 
Later 42rocker


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 29 2019 at 11:44am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Sounds like a Savage or Long Branch made gun?
It sounds "scrubbed", which usually indicates an Indian refurbish at some point.
Pics would be a big help in getting a positive iD.
If you reload avoid boat tails till you check it out, some 2 groove don't like boat tails

I get the boat tail, can't afford the price.  I only use this for plinking alongside Henry 357/38, and AR in 22LR.


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Sidney


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: September 30 2019 at 5:44am
Sidney, for cheap plinking try 7.62x39 ammo broken down for the bullet and powder, it is the way to go!

Works like a charm for plinking and other than casting your own bullets from scrap lead, it is one of the cheapest ways to reload for the 303.

I use an inertia hammer to pop the bullets out after giving them a small push in a seating die to break the sealant. I use the powder charge as is.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 30 2019 at 7:07am
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:

Sidney, for cheap plinking try 7.62x39 ammo broken down for the bullet and powder, it is the way to go!

Works like a charm for plinking and other than casting your own bullets from scrap lead, it is one of the cheapest ways to reload for the 303.

I use an inertia hammer to pop the bullets out after giving them a small push in a seating die to break the sealant. I use the powder charge as is.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.  Only concern is powder from 7.62x39 is only ~60% of case capacity in 303.  If that works, I have lots of 7.62x39 from my AK.  I am also planning on using Berry plated 125 grs bullets, and 12 grs of Unique  powder.


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Sidney


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 30 2019 at 1:58pm
Check 10 of the pulled 762x39, powder charge average around 25 grains (whatever it is).

COAL set to 2.89".  The Lee neck sizing does not seem to form the neck tight enough, might have to crimp tighter.  I hope the reduced charge presents no issue on pressure.






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Sidney


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: September 30 2019 at 2:53pm
I am not sure as to the problems associated with air space in smokeless cartridges.

I have never had any issues with just dumping the 7.62 powder load directly into the 303 case.

What is your concern? Somebody here will have answers.


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.
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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: September 30 2019 at 3:14pm
Load density -

Low powder charge can cause secondary detonation. I reload 357 mag and 300 Blk near max using W296 or H110.

http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

It is powder dependence. That's why I asked if you have any issue.

Edited

I use the Hodgdon recommended Max load * 60% rule using from Lyman handbook 48th Edition H4895 sample of 43.5 gr max for 125 gr projectile: 43.5 * 0.6 = 26.1gr.

The average pulls 762x39 unknown powder =/25 gr.  So, it is short of 1.1 gr; does it matter? I don't know.  I loaded up 10 to try.  

BTW, I was surprised to see the Russian ammo from early 90 hollow point projectiles are boat tail.


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Sidney


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 7:53am
Does anyone know the marking on top of the buttplate?
Thanks,




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Sidney


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 10 2019 at 8:54pm
welcome from the north coast 


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 5:10am
Thanks for all the warm welcome.

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Sidney


Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 1:58pm
could be Dept of defence 3 military district 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 2:42pm
I would be cautious of low density smokeless powder loads.  Some powders are fine for this purpose (like 4895); some are not.  Not likely we know what powder was used in the 7.62 x 39 cartridges.  If it were me, I would use a known powder type and use minimum charge weights from published load tables.   
 
Is the 7.62 bullet measure approx. .310?  If you are using a Lee collet die, you can get an undersized mandrel from Lee if your not getting sufficient neck tension. 
 
The 2 groove is a bit of a mystery, I thought only Long Branch and Savage made two groove barrels, but perhaps other factories made them. 
 
 


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by smerdon42 smerdon42 wrote:

could be Dept of defence 3 military district 

Would you share a bit more about Dept of defence 3 military district?
Good to know, thanks.


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Sidney


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I would be cautious of low density smokeless powder loads.  Some powders are fine for this purpose (like 4895); some are not.  Not likely we know what powder was used in the 7.62 x 39 cartridges.  If it were me, I would use a known powder type and use minimum charge weights from published load tables.   
 
Is the 7.62 bullet measure approx. .310?  If you are using a Lee collet die, you can get an undersized mandrel from Lee if your not getting sufficient neck tension. 
 
The 2 groove is a bit of a mystery, I thought only Long Branch and Savage made two groove barrels, but perhaps other factories made them. 
 
 

The use of 7.62x39 was mentioned here also. Read from elsewhere some use 7.62x54r pulled projectile and 80% of powder from the round to load 303.

Yes, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r are 0.311. 

The 2 groove barrel has identical serial number marking as on the receiver; the forearm stock also has the same marking.  

None bothers me, as long as I get some fun out of it.  I loaded up 30 round using Trail Boss powder, be heading to the range next week.


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Sidney


Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 4:16pm
you see a lot of British rifles that ended up in Australian service stamped with. D Arrow D or Dmilitary district ie 1,2,3,4,5,6 D , 3 would be a Victorian rifle . We also use still today a numerical prefix to represent what state you enlisted in ie my dad was a 1 for als and mine is a 2 for nsw


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by smerdon42 smerdon42 wrote:

you see a lot of British rifles that ended up in Australian service stamped with. D Arrow D or Dmilitary district ie 1,2,3,4,5,6 D , 3 would be a Victorian rifle . We also use still today a numerical prefix to represent what state you enlisted in ie my dad was a 1 for als and mine is a 2 for nsw

What is "als"?  I assume nsw is New South Wales.


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Sidney


Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 5:44pm
damn auto correct it was qld Queensland and in ww2 if you had a x in you service number it meant you served in a overseas combat zone 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 11 2019 at 7:26pm
3rd military district , victoria , my 1915 BSA mkIII is so marked as well , it served in both wars , this was its WWII service , 


Posted By: Sidneyw
Date Posted: October 12 2019 at 8:10am
smerdon42, A square 10,

Good info, thanks.


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Sidney



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