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Another Ishapore

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Ishapore Enfields
Forum Description: Let's see those Indian Enfields!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10061
Printed Date: December 02 2020 at 11:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Another Ishapore
Posted By: Frameman 1
Subject: Another Ishapore
Date Posted: October 15 2019 at 6:31pm
just got this today . I hope I didn’t screw up.



Replies:
Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 15 2019 at 6:46pm
more pics 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 15 2019 at 6:52pm
very nice 2A , it all looks to be correct and in good nick as well , should perform well for you , these are quite nice rifles - i occasionally miss mine when i see these posts , i think you did quite well , congrats 


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 15 2019 at 7:04pm
Thank you ,
I traded an AK I’ve had for years for this one.
I am a bit puzzled however.
The gun shop owner had it tagged as a 308 caliber but the wrist is clearly marked as 7.62.
I also wonder why the model Mklll markings went? Scrubbed in Ishapore I assume.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 15 2019 at 8:46pm
The 2A1 7.62mm  rifle receiver was made with a stronger steel. Ishapore did not convert existing No1Mk111* rifles to 7.62. The .308 and 7.62x51 have one difference, and that is the shoulder area of the case. In the following photo,the bullet on the left is  .308 and the bullet on the right is a 7.62x51. The .308 ammunition will chamber in the 7.62 rifle but not all NATO ammunition will chamber in new .308 rifles.


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 12:26am
Based on your statement, I should go with the stamping info on the rifle. The shoulder of the 7.62 round does appear to be shorter and a slightly different angle. Interesting!!


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 4:11am
Also consider that the velocity and pressure are different; with the NATO spec being slightly lower than .308 rounds.
There are many versions of .308 with different bullet weights and loads for hunting etc. That's why it's better to stick with the NATO spec.
If you reload; you can use the .308 components and load to NATO spec velocities to keep it safe.

That's a very nice clean example. Please show us the range report when you find time.



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 4:22am
You can count on my range report. I’m going to disassemble and safety check it out and put a few 7.62 bullets down range this weekend for sure.


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 6:12am
You have a nice 2A now you just need a nice original 2A1 to go with it. The rear sights are different. Now that you have a couple just be careful. They breed like rabbits LOL


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 7:07am
I blame this site. Before I joined I had one Sporter. Since then I've aquired a No5, another No4 Sporter, a L42A1clone, a No4 Mk2 (which I made into a Sniper clone), and a No1 MkIII. Shame on all of you!Smile


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 7:31am
This piece doesn’t appear to have any import marks either.
Not sure if that’s good or bad.


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 3:34pm
I’m afraid I may have stepped in it on this purchase. I’ve measured the barrel length from inside the muzzle to the face of the closed bolt. I’m getting 20”. I’m pretty sure it should be 25.5”. The lower stock also appears to have been shortened. Notice the distance from the rear of the nose cap to the barrel band. When I removed the wood I noticed a splice made to the lower hand-guard at the barrel band.
I still haven’t been to the range to shoot it. The barrel crown doesn’t look bad. Please! Someone tell me that Ishapore built a carbine.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 6:37pm
Nope!
Gibbs Rifle Company shortened some of them to make a 7.62 Jungle Carbine and a Tanker version.  Yours could be one of them. Alot of Enfield  rifles have a tendency to become something they were not from people who have no idea what they have in its original form and think they can improve on an already perfect rifle. Take it for what it is now and enjoy it...


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 7:00pm
agreed - use 762x51 in it , it was a longer one originally but a fine looking rifle and as stated enjoy it as is , you will not be disappointed in it i think , 


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 16 2019 at 7:11pm
I’m going to take your advice. I still need to do a bit of work to the wood in letting. The wood behind the steel pillar for the front trigger guard screw is blown out and the recoil blocks at the trigger action is beaten a little. A little Acraglas will fix this problem. 
The history of this rifle just got more interesting.😎


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 7:08am
I think you got a tanker conversion. In their own way they're neat. Do check the splice you found, some forend tips have been known to launch downrange on firing due to gluing oily wood together.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 7:15am
that thought did enter my mind. At a glance it seems to be strong. We’ll see!!


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 7:20am
does anyone know if the splice was pinned or just butt glued?


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 8:01am
If Gibbs did the conversion it was pinned. 


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 8:11am
I would definitely own that rifle! Very nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 8:25am
IIRC the ends were drilled & dowels inserted lengthwise then it was all glued together. I never heard of any cross pins, dovetails or anything though. Just a butt join with dowels.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 8:54am
I can’t find any manufacturers marks or import marks anywhere on it . Is there anyway to tell if it’s a Gibbs conversion?


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 9:41am
These are notorious for being unmarked. Here is a post from Gunboards that talks about it and some of the history of these "tanker" carbines:

"Mid-age, since you and others already know the rifle's pedigree there is no harm to be done to anyones feelings at this point. For the sake of info, I'll go on and offer a little more background going back about 20 years on these 'tankers' and others. Namely the so-called Gibbs rifles since it came up.
Back then many of us here were then on the Gun and Knife boards followed by its successor Britishguns.net until shortly after the passing of our host, Mark Bitting.

Val Forgett Jr. himself was on the boards with us and he himself gave us the lowdown on what his commercial carbines really were. Mind you, he was defending against backlash for chopping up rifles.
The rifles were said to be rejects, modified because they couldn't pass muster to be sold directly as surplus. Original conditions were that bad or so we were told. They were not modified one at a time but in huge batches at low cost to get them to market at a price which could still profit. They are refinished parts guns made with both old and NOS surplus bits.
Another point of conflict was the fact the rifles were unmarked in regard to who did the work unlike the well marked Golden State/Santa Fe "jungle carbines" or the Jovino like-new builds...which are identifiable by traits and serial numbers.

The Gibbs name had been bought out earlier by Navy Arms and was used strictly as a recognizable trade name by this point. Nothing resembling the old and honorable company which once stood behind it. (Just like Curtis-Mathis televisions and other trusted brand names)

There were a lot of problems back then in regard to QC. They were hit or miss from function to finish. As Val told us on open forum, try them before knocking them so some of us did. I picked up three duds myself from disgruntled owners. I was able to swap parts and do some tweaking to get the rifles to perform. Others did the same. Most were refinished as that would come off staining hands, face, and clothing when used on a warm humid day.
By now, those duds which weren't stripped and sold for parts have probably been fixed along the way. There may be some which were tossed to the side or buried in the back of the safe which may someday resurface. Those are the ones to be wary of.

The rifles have always been notorious for being unmarked. Many suspect nefarious reasons behind that given the overall poor QC of the parts guns and misleading ad hype of the time.

The "tankers" such as yours I am unsure of some of their commercial origins. I don't recall them being a "Gibbs" offering but some were said to be sold under the Navy Arms label. Doesn't matter much at this point anymore. So long as yours works and you're pleased with your nostalgic looking carbine then all is good. As you said, given its history you are free to do whatever you need to/want to in regards to upgrades and improvements and that's a good thing too."

Link to the thread:  https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?353379-1966-ISHAPORE-2a1-ENFIELD-TANKER" rel="nofollow - https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?353379-1966-ISHAPORE-2a1-ENFIELD-TANKER


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 17 2019 at 8:47pm
"The wood behind the steel pillar for the front trigger guard screw is blown out and the recoil blocks at the trigger action is beaten a little."

ive seen brass ferrals fitted at the screw that might work for you , there are plates that fit in the stock to take that impact , 


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 18 2019 at 12:19am
I remember seeing those plates you mention. I’ll look into that. Thanks!


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 18 2019 at 1:46pm
Well, I have a range report to share with all who are interested.
I’ll start with the good news. All 19 rounds of PPU 7.62 NATO M80, went bang. Yay!! Nothing made of metal left the rifle. Also Yay! Groups were pretty good at about 3”. 
The bad, the forend, as predicted, left the rifle on the very first shot. 0 glue just a hardware store wood dowel. 
My shots at 27yds. are about 1.5” to the left but are nearly 5.5” too high. Hopefully I can find a front sight blade tall enough to correct this issue. 
The corrective woodwork will be easy and fun.
This rifle makes me smile!😎



Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 25 2019 at 10:30pm
Second range report!
After cleaning, installing brass pins and applying epoxy to all mating wood surfaces, fabricating some reinforcement plates at the recoil draws, polishing the trigger group, I now report the rifle not only stayed in one piece but achieved pretty good accuracy ( by my standards) as well.
Sub 3” groups at 25 yards. #4 group started to loosen with a heated barrel. I think I like her.


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There are no Americans in Baghdad!!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 26 2019 at 8:30am
Nicely done!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: October 26 2019 at 10:53am
Thanks Shamu.
I do still have an issue with extracting a case after firing.
It takes some effort but can be done without power tools.
I’m going to give it’s chamber a really good cleaning and see if that takes some of the struggle out of it.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 26 2019 at 5:17pm
Good idea, also clean the neck & throat area!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Arminius
Date Posted: November 11 2019 at 2:58pm
It´s an interesting rifle, for sure!
 
May I ask: what´s the Mag capacity?
 
Literature is that most were 12 rounders.
 
Any Mag I traced on the net was 10 rounds: mine, 2 replacement aftermarket mags, any advertised on God-only-knows.
 
Regards, Hermann
 
P.S.: mine is marked "2A1", has the "2.000" sight, WITH windage adjustable rear blade.


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Certified gun nut
Guns. Also classy Women, good beer and fine wines. Did I mention guns? Lots of guns.
A man can never have enough ammunition, books and booze.


Posted By: Frameman 1
Date Posted: November 11 2019 at 3:18pm
The magazine capacity is 10 rounds comfortably, 11 if I force feed it but it doesn’t like 11. Back sight is a 2000 but not windage adjustable.

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There are no Americans in Baghdad!!



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