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Best surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2

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Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Ishapore Enfields
Forum Description: Let's see those Indian Enfields!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10486
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Topic: Best surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2
Posted By: Goosic
Subject: Best surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2
Date Posted: April 07 2020 at 1:23pm
To the Original Poster of this. You had asked a question about the best surplus ammunition for,what I am to assume is an Ishapore 2A1 rifle chambered for the 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge?  I understand your worry about using normal 308 Winchester ammunition.  Let me help alleviate some issues you may have. The Ishapore 2A1 was not made using recycled No1Mk111 receivers.  They were made with all new steel at the time and were proofed to 19 tons of pressure, unlike the normal 18.5 tons of the 303 cartridge. That being said. The 303 has a maximum Copper Units of Pressure(CUP) of 45,000 whereas the NATO cartridge has a maximum (CUP) of 62,000 but rarely meets the maximum unless it is used in Long Range shooting competitions/benches by handloaders. The average LR military cartridge  used by the U.S. is a 175grn Sierra MK .308,primed with CCI #34 NATO spec magnum primers and loaded with 41.7grns of IMR4064 powder all packed inside Federal Cartridge cases. It has a CUP of a mere 46,800. Federal commercial ammunition  offers the .308 Winchester in 150 grain that typically do not exceed 42,100 CUP. Their 180grn does not exceed 44,700 CUP.  Both functionally safe to use in your Ishapore.  I have a No4Mk2 that I converted to 7.62x51mm as well as a No5Mk1. Both rifles have had commercial, military, and handloads through them and to date have had no issues.  Take from this what you will. Commercially loaded 308 ammunition is not loaded to any maximum pressures and will not act adversely in a military chamber.



Replies:
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 07 2020 at 2:23pm
The .308 Winchester commercial spec ammo will not exceed SAAMI specs for that cartridge. 

 So, anything up to 62,000 psi Maximum Average Pressure (Piezo Pressure method), or 52,000 CUP Maximum Average Pressure (copper crusher method).   I would not be comfortable shooting .308 commercial ammunition in my No. 4 7.62 NATO conversion unless I knew the MAP for that specific load.  And, it may be subject to change.  

I don’t particularly like shooting 7.62 NATO ball ammunition either, although I’m probably erring on the side of caution here, I want to minimize wear on the action.  I prefer handloading to .303 velocities for the same bullet weight.  






Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 07 2020 at 3:14pm
Lyman has a perfect handload for .308/7.62×51 that gives you a 35,500 Copper Units of Pressure, per the Lyman reloading manual using exactly 40.0grns of IMR 4064 with a 168grn BTHP and primed with Remington 9 1/2 primers.  That is almost 10,000 CUP under the 303B of 45,000 CUP


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 07 2020 at 3:45pm
That’s one of the advantages of handloads.  Total control of pressure and velocity.  

I use 40.0 grains of Varget in both .303 and 7.62 reloads using a 174 gr and 168 gr boat tailed bullet respectively.  Both loads are well under the SAAMI maximum MAP for .303 and very accurate.  40.0 gr of IMR 4064 would be very similar.  












Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 07 2020 at 7:21pm
how come the OP is not here anymore ? 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 6:46am
Not a clue, sorry. Usually if the OP in a thread is deleted the whole chain goes away?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 9:00am
deleted


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 10:08am
You forgot to mention that they exceeded 20 plus tonnes of pressure to get the receivers to twist...


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 10:13am
interesting information , valuable to those that load for and shoot these old rifles [interesting i think of them as old and they are actually some of the newer made] ive always thought of the shotguns as being the less dangerous with no good logic behind the thought other than shotgun pressures ,


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 10:24am
...as a sidenote,and this is just for the IMR4064 powder only. When used in the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge in conjunction with bullets from 125grn through to the 200grn bullet and loading to just the suggested starting grain, you never exceed the PSI reading of 47,000 which is 3000 PSI below that of the 50262 PSI of the 303B.
The equation is supplied in another thread of mine fyi...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 2:50pm
It never made much sense to me that bullet were limited to a specific weight in a given rifle.   People have sworn that the gas system (Op rod) can be damaged in the M1 if you load anything above 150 gr bullets.  But they forget the M1 when approved for the US military the M1 .30-06 cartridge which used a 173 gr bullet was in use at the time, the M2 cartridge had not been developed yet. 

I can’t see how shooting 168 or 175 gr bullets, if properly loaded to not exceed published data, could damage the rifle.  But as I’ve said, I personally stay well below the published maximums for .308 in my No. 4 conversion.  It shoots the 168 gr SMK very well out to 600 yards.  


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 3:10pm
The convertion  from PSI to CUP is PSI x 1.21 - 15817 =CUP
168grn .308 BTHP
40.0 IMR4064 has a PSI of 36882 and converts to a CUP of 28737.62
41.0 Varget  has a PSI of 42200 and converts to a CUP of 35425

174grn .311 BTHP 
40.0 IMR4064 has a PSI of 38700 and converts to a CUP of 31010
40.0 Varget has a PSI of 43900 and converts to a CUP of 37302

The interesting point here is that the published data has the .308 operating well below that of the 303 British 


Posted By: WilliamS
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

It never made much sense to me that bullet were limited to a specific weight in a given rifle.   People have sworn that the gas system (Op rod) can be damaged in the M1 if you load anything above 150 gr bullets.  But they forget the M1 when approved for the US military the M1 .30-06 cartridge which used a 173 gr bullet was in use at the time, the M2 cartridge had not been developed yet. 

I can’t see how shooting 168 or 175 gr bullets, if properly loaded to not exceed published data, could damage the rifle.  But as I’ve said, I personally stay well below the published maximums for .308 in my No. 4 conversion.  It shoots the 168 gr SMK very well out to 600 yards.  

Personally I think bullet weight matters more for matching trajectory to the sights in milsurps than it does for safety.  For semiautomatic rifle function I think the pressure curve is more important (bullet weight plays a part but only a part).  Of course, when the M1 was adopted with M1 ball, it was with the gas trap system.  I think M2 ball (M1906 spec) was adopted before the change in gas systems, so I wouldn't be surprised if M1 ball in any non gas trap rifle could potentially have the wrong pressure curve.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 3:23pm
Unfortunately those are approximate calculated conversions. Useful for "checking it out" but not really accurate over the entire range.
On of the biggest things in reloading is CUP, Vs PSI.
the two do not change the same way over a range.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 08 2020 at 3:45pm
Both gas trap and gas port systems were in service when the M2 ball was developed, so it had to work in both.   Although, most of the Pre-1939 gas port M1s ended up being modified to the gas port configuration.   They were more concerned about exceeding the range safety zones with the M1 ball, so went to the lighter flat based M2 bullet to limit range.  I don’t think it had anything to do with concerns that the 173 grain bullet was damaging the Op Rod. 

I don’t recall if the elevation marks on the range drum were changed when M2 ball was introduced, out to 1200 yards, the trajectories are very close out to 800 yards.  

My only other comment in handloading is to be cautious when attempting to do light loads.  Some powders do not behave well with air space.  Not usually a problem in loading .308 to .303 pressures and velocities.  But with .30-06, where there is a lot of airspace with modern smokeless powders, this can be dangerous.  







Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 11:09am
deleted


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 11:35am
Can you supply us with a side by side comparison with 303B proofing methods please?


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 09 2020 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

 

They used the standard proof round for 7.62 NATO.

But as a comparison the 308 SAAMI proof round is 35+ tonnes.





Interesting that 308 has higher pressures than 7.62 NATO

Comparisons :


This is exactly why the 308 is listed has having a higher PSI then that of the NATO 7.62

NATO EPVAT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Small_arms_ammunition_pressure_testing&action=edit&section=7" rel="nofollow - Edit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO" rel="nofollow - NATO  defines 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm and 12.7mm using the  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_EPVAT_testing" rel="nofollow - NATO EPVAT  test methods, which includes pressure testing. Unlike the civilian testing methods NATO EPVAT testing procedures for the "NATO rifle chamberings" require the pressure sensor or transducer to be mounted ahead of the case mouth. The advantage of this mounting position is that there is no need to drill the cartridge case to mount the transducer. Drilling prior to firing is always a time-consuming process (fast quality control and feedback to production is essential during the ammunition manufacturing process). The disadvantage of this mount is that the pressure rises much faster than in a drilled cartridge case. This causes high frequency oscillations of the pressure sensor (approx 200 kHz for a Kistler 6215 transducer) and this requires  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_%28signal_processing%29" rel="nofollow - electronic filtering  with the drawback that filtering also affects the lower harmonics where a peak is found causing a slight error in the measurement. This slight error is not always well mastered and this causes a lot of discussion about the filter order, cutoff frequency and its type ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessel_filter" rel="nofollow - Bessel  or  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterworth_filter" rel="nofollow - Butterworth ). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_arms_ammunition_pressure_testing#cite_note-9" rel="nofollow - [9]  For the 9mm NATO EPVAT specifies that for 9×19mm Parabellum (9mm Luger in C.I.P. nomenclature and 9mm NATO in NATO nomenclature), the transducer must be positioned at the mid case position (9.5 millimetres (0.37 in)) from the breech face instead of C.I.P.'s 12.5 millimetres (0.49 in) from the breech face. For NATO EPVAT testing of military firearms ammunition NATO design EPVAT test barrels with Kistler 6215 channel sensor transducers are used



Posted By: britinbc
Date Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:19pm
Hi All
        interesting thread
    i was about to ask if it was ok to use 308, as 7.62x51 is getting harder to find
    but i dont need to now 
      cheers J 



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:59pm
Federal Ammunition makes a factory 175grn .308 round that can definitely be used in a rifle chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO. 


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 07 2021 at 6:56am
Das ist ein sehr interessantes Thema...   

Hier in der Schweiz gibts eine andere, Auswahl Auswahl eine 7,62 mm Nato-Munition ... Fast alle 144-147 gr-Sorten kommen mit der Bezeichnung .308 Win., überdies...

Was waren die Erfahrungen mit den .308 Win.-Laborierungen Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT und PMC 147 gr Bronze FMJ-BT und der Lapua B466 150 gr Lock-Base in einer No. 4-Enfield-Conversion ? Am besten mit Streukreisen, Mündungsgeschwindigkeiten.. .

Danke Zwinkern

Beste Grüsse aus einer
verschneiten Schweiz  


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:11am
Baa... German not English in the posting before. I beg your pardon. Angry

This is a really interesting topic. Confused Because here in Switzerland we get quite another, smaller choice of 7,62 mm-Nato-Ammo only..  Most of the 144-150 gr loads come as .308 Win.-stuff, on top of that.. 

What was your experience with the .308 Win.-Loads Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT, PMC Bronze 147 gr FMJ-BT and Lapua B466 150 gr Lock Base FMJ ? 

Ideally with group size and muzzle velocities.. .

Many Thanks Wink  

Best regards from
a snowy Switzerland

 



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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 07 2021 at 2:13pm
I have only used the Commercially loaded 175grn Federal Ammunition and recently acquired the Military M852 Match ammunition for testing purposes only. I handload using both the Hornady BTHP and Sierra Matchking BTHP 168grn .308 bullet. I use Norma 202 and IMR4064 starting with 40.0, never exceeding 42.0 for both as well. Published data gives a PSI on the Piezo Scale of just under 40,000 using the suggested starting charge weight of both powders. 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 07 2021 at 3:11pm
OK, now I think I understand.
Thumbs Up
7.62mm NATO is a "Military round"
.308 Win is a "Civilian round"
We have a similar, but not quite as dense, ruling here.
The FN-FAL was imported here in .308 Winchester (match) from Belgium, why? Because it was a civilian target (in the US Pistol! Wink) round. Its politics not ballistics.
So lets think for a moment.
1: Is it a 150gr (9.52544Gm) bullet?
2: Is the muzzle velocity lower than 2650FPS (M/S 807.72) The quoted velocities tend to say NO! (850M/S)
If it is you're possibly safe. It's going to depend on things like the burning rate (@ 850M/S) of the powder used ( which we don't know) ?????
BUT!
There may still be differences that are unsafe, like Peak pressure, Pressure curve & so on.




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:29pm
I’ve come to look at this question in a broader sense than just the ultimate strength of the action for a one time application of the maximum pressure.  I consider the cumulative effects of shooting thousands of rounds of this ammo.  For that reason, I have chosen to load my own as Goosic does to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data keeping pressures and velocities to less than that of .303 British Mk 7 ammunition (for similar weight bullets, 168 and 175 grains). 

All you can be certain of is that this American Eagle and Lapua 150 gr commercial ammo is within the 62,000 psi piezo pressure maximum when fired in a SAAMI spec chamber.  We don’t know what the pressure is for that ammo fired in your particular rifle.  

For me, I would much rather reload my own, to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data, and chronograph my loads to give me confidence that the chamber pressures are low, and less than .303 British Mk 7 ammunition.  I do this to minimize long term wear on the rifle, not out of concern that I will blow up the rifle from an overload. 

I want to minimize barrel throat erosion and wear on the action.  These rifles are not being made anymore and good ones are getting harder to find. 




Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 9:09am
Good evening, thanks for all the answers Wink

Goosic: this Federal 175 grain is this the Gold Medal-Match, i suppose ? 

Only to be sure to understand it really correctly, you had no problems with it in a No.4-Enfield ?

That would be great... !

BR 


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 12 2021 at 6:12am
Better said, it is rather this type of box, these days... Now the pic has been found here - if you had a trouble-free use in a Enfield No.4-Conversion, that would really help solve problems.. . Smile  Basically I can imagine that, because Federal ammo was in any caliber never loaded hot, according to my 30 Years experience. And having a look at reloading Infos, f.e. Hogdon, it seems to be possible.. .

If 1 or 2 commercial loads works well and are also payable, reloading would be unnecessary so everything would be by far simpler.. . I don't reload until but was and I'm still interested in it.

Federal 175 gr Match, Military M852 Match: You have really good access to ammo..  Enviable  Tongue 
If here in Switzerland a Federal Ammo product appears, its usually quickly sold out.. You have to run.  



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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:36am
deleted


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:51am
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

Good evening, thanks for all the answers Wink

Goosic: this Federal 175 grain is this the Gold Medal-Match, i suppose ? 

Only to be sure to understand it really correctly, you had no problems with it in a No.4-Enfield ?

That would be great... !

BR 
I myself have not had an issue with the 175grn Sierra Matchking as loaded by Federal Ammunition. 



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

deleted
Why??


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

deleted
Why?


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:55am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

deleted
Why???


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 4:15am
If you do a search online for load data on this cartridge you will find it was loaded with 41.7 gr IMR 4064.  That is a mild load for .308 Winchester.  

What does is say on the box for muzzle velocity?  

Goosic, didn’t you chrono this ammo in your No. 4? 




Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 6:57am
Some rounds just over 2500 and some just under 2500 with the highest speed being 2545 and the lowest at 2480. No flattened primers and no noticable case bulging. 


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 13 2021 at 10:19am
Thanks, Goosic ! Smile

Thats really interesting.. More to your informative posts later.. Snow calls Confused

Sometimes I receive the impression that the opinions diverge here.. .

Have a good evening all of you. 




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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 18 2021 at 3:48pm
This Federal ammo 150 grs and 180 grs you mentioned here: its which type concretely, Goosic ? The bullet style would be fine... Because I cant find it here in the Swiss offerings.
Thanks !

Best regards


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 18 2021 at 5:32pm
The only two commercially loaded Federal Ammunition 308Win loads i referenced were the 168grn and 175grn Sierra Matchking rounds.



Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:27am
he!!o Goosic, 

I have to be more concrete.. My old mistake ? Smile.. Well, let's do it.. I meant this of your mentionings: 

Federal commercial ammunition  offers the .308 Winchester in 150 grain that typically do not exceed 42,100 CUP. Their 180grn does not exceed 44,700 CUP.  Both functionally safe to use in your Ishapore.  I have a No4Mk2 that I converted to 7.62x51mm as well as a No5Mk1. Both rifles have had commercial, military, and handloads through them and to date have had no issues.  Take from this what you will. 

Because of the enjoyable number of offerings here I can't be sure. Do this two loads belong to Federals American Eagle-Line, for example ? Or is it part of their hunting ammo... or something else ?..      

 
So maybe its possible to use their .308 175 grs Gold Medal Match together with a inexpensive training respectively target practice-ammo... (With better accuracy than a cheap NATO-Ammo, hopefully).. . 

That could be fine, I think. 

Thanks, Goosic.

Best regards







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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:36am
Said in pictures: Wink  A handful of examples..














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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:16am
 Yes, I mentioned the 150 and 180grn commercial ammunition and I mentioned that I have used it along with military ammunition.  I used both the commercial and military rounds for testing purposes only to compare velocities with my handloads.
My preferred handloads all use either Hornady or Sierra Matchking bullets and both weigh 168grn.  My powders used are Norma 202, IMR4064, and IMR4895. All three powders used are loaded at a precise 41.7grns and never exceed 2525 fps. Tabulated and averaged PSI is 42,800 according to Hodgdon and Norma reloading data. The ONLY commercial 7.62/308 ammunition i will trust in an Enfield rifle is the 175grn Federal Gold Match and the 168grn Federal Gold Match. Both of which are duplicates of the military Not For Combat Use competition rounds...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:55am
This is good advice.  It will help preserve these rifles and minimize barrel and action wear.  It’s well known that barrel life is highly dependent on bullet velocity. 

 My AR-15 match barrel begins to loose accuracy after about 2500 rounds.  Bullet muzzle velocity 2800 fps with 69 gr bullets, 2700 with 80 gr bullet.  For shooting the 5.56/.223 at 600 yards, need all the velocity you can get. 




Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:11am
Thanks for the quick answer... 

For velocity-comparisons, yes... . 

Was it maybe a A.E. 150 grs-FMJ-BT-Ammo - with which muzzle-velocity, please? 

Background is: we have here in CH one quite specialised shop which sometimes offers other ammo types than imported by the official representantative. Test ammo from gunmaker-companies, being exact.  




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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:48am
A 150grn commercially loaded bullet had a chronographed speed of 2760 fps of one brand and a chronographed speed of 2814 fps of another brand. I will not divulge  the brand names. They are NOT safe to use in an Enfield, be it a 2A1 or a No4 conversion.
I believe we are having a language barrier issue here. I have given you the safest alternatives to reloading 168grn BTHP bullets taken from the Hodgdon reloading data base. You have asked me a few times now about 150 and 180grn bullets and if they are safe. If  you handload and control the powder charge by keeping it to the very minimum then, maybe. I cannot give you a definitive yes or no on that one. If you are wanting to fire 150 or 180 commercially loaded ammunition in your Enfield? NO, NEIN, and NON!
I can only give you information that I have collected data on and that is safe to use in my rifle. I do not know the condition of your rifle and will only suggest that you reload using the starting charge weight of any and all powder you may be using. I do not know any specifics on any commercial or military ammunition, be it powder type,powder weight, pressure or velocities unless it is intended for my personal use when I reload.
I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause in your searches to an answer...


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 10:28am
Okay, Goosic. 

I dont't think its a language barrier here Smile 

I understand now - the velocities which resulted from you measurings were not positive, better said potentially to high for safe use here in our rifles. 

And the rest is clear, too. I agree. I won't be careless in case of reloading, of course.

But there's no absolute"verdict"that all commercial .308 Win. loads from 168 grs weight upwards are so dangerous and unsafe - it depends on the single ammo. You found two positive examples Thumbs Up 

No inconvenience here between us, Goosic. The contrary - you had the consequence and courage to work here at this subject in a way that didn't many others, if any. During a search for a long time...  .  

BR  





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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 12:19pm
As Gossic just said, there are many variables and there is very little chamber pressure data available on commercial ammunition (and that is subject to change).   That’s why I avoid it in my No. 4 rifles.  Keep in mind, the same No. 4 action that was designed for the .303 British cartridge is being used in these 7.62 conversion rifles.  Even though they were proofed to use 7.62 NATO ball ammunition produced at the time, there are so many other variables by using modern .308 Win ammunition it is not worth the risk in my opinion.  Not so much that I fear a major failure from firing a few rounds, I worry about the long term effects.  

Goosic ran the tests measuring velocity of the Federal 175 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition and with his own handloads using the very same bullet and powder.  By referring to the published reloading data tables we can confirm that this particular ammunition is a low pressure load and will not be detrimental to the No. 4 action.

I don’t think there is much more to be said about this subject, I believe reloading is really the best option for these old rifles.  



Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:16pm
Good morning,
In any case, it was the biggest possible surprise that especially Federals 175 gr Gold Medal Match was not as"hot"laborated as many believed. Or even were convinced of... . Yes.. The civilian part of this Long-Range Sniper Ammo, which is so clever produced..

And even now some will not agree at all, we won't have to wait long... . Sure.. Pinch

Despite this, Have a good night


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

Good morning,
In any case, it was the biggest possible surprise that especially Federals 175 gr Gold Medal Match was not as"hot"laborated as many believed. Or even were convinced of... . Yes.. The civilian part of this Long-Range Sniper Ammo, which is so clever produced..

And even now some will not agree at all, we won't have to wait long... . Sure.. Pinch

Despite this, Have a good night
Enfield Envoy:
Für Ihren Gesandten. Finden Sie einige Norma Precision Black Diamond 168grn Munition. Die Geschwindigkeiten liegen innerhalb sicherer Parameter für das Enfield. Wenn Sie tatsächlich neu laden, gehen Sie zur Hodgdons-Website und geben Sie die Informationen ein, die Sie recherchieren möchten, und laden Sie die Daten in Ihre Dateien herunter. 
Ich spreche kein Deutsch. Dies ist ein Englisch-Deutsch-Übersetzer...



Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 1:10am
Good morning, Goosic

Even German Text - Great. Yes..

We had this Norma
in CH, too... I bought in the last years one or two boxes of .308 Win. of different types here and there. Including this Diamond Line 168 gr. I didn't test it yet in any Rifle... I don't have their data at hand ?...
In any case she is a very well known and also here quite often used Match ammo, yes... A Reference Cartridge...



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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 9:13am
Do you reload?
What ammunition are you currently using in that Envoy?
What specifically are you looking for?

Laden Sie neu?
Welche Munition verwenden Sie derzeit in diesem Gesandten?
Was genau suchen Sie?

Rechargez-vous?
Quelles munitions utilisez-vous actuellement dans cet Envoy?
Que recherchez-vous spécifiquement?


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 2:19pm
No, i do not reload, so far.... Probably a commercial reloader here will receive soon my order... But also for other rifles than our Lee-Enfields.. 
It was not necessary, too few ammo used in most calibers... And then there was an quite good commercial ammo-choice here available.. .
And i have to add i had a break in this hobby ca. 2007-2016.. Unfortunately Angry

Goosic.. I don't have an Envoy yet... Hopefully once. I used mainly the Lapua D46 185 grs Match in my D73 from London..

Now i try to replace resp. duplicate their RG L2-Service-Ammo... As an training/practical-ammo, as described.. . Factory Ammo like this is missing now..Confused


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 2:28pm
... And this type's also missing here now... Best regards

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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 20 2021 at 3:41pm
Do you own any Enfield rifle that would use the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge?


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 5:01am
I do... Yes. 

Please have a look at my posts from 24th december in the thread "Safe and accurate", at 10'11 resp. 10'14..
1 7,62 mm Nato and 5 in .303 British and .30-06 Springfield.. .




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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Enfield Envoy
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 5:10am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Do you own any Enfield rifle that would use the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge?

 
In other words, unfortunately I didn't buy enough such MEN.. Or an similar ammunition.. Because of my inexperience 27, 28 Years ago... 

That could have made this search unnecessary... . True.


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Enfield Envoy


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 6:26am
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Do you own any Enfield rifle that would use the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge?

 
In other words, unfortunately I didn't buy enough such MEN.. Or an similar ammunition.. Because of my inexperience 27, 28 Years ago... 

That could have made this search unnecessary... . True.
Take a 7 hour and 15 minute drive from Switzerland to Germany and go directly to MEN and demand that they sell you as much of their 147grn Sniper ammunition that you can afford. Once you have done that, stop into a bed and breakfast to rest for the night and to fawn over your new newly acquired ammunition direct from MEN. Wake up the following morning refreshed and drive home. You can also visit www.gunbroker.com type ".308 Winchester Ammo " into the search box and hit search. Find something you like and bid on it!! Bid on it until you win!!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 6:47am
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

In other words, unfortunately I didn't buy enough such MEN.. Or an similar ammunition.. Because of my inexperience 27, 28 Years ago... 

That could have made this search unnecessary... . True.
Your search for ammo can continue on some other forum but please not here. Talk about and share with us your Enforcer. How you acquired it, your likes and dislikes about it. Show us pictures of it.  If it has the original Pecar scope, talk about that. Did any other accessories come with it and which target rear sight came with it? How did Parker Hale stamp it? Is it stamped, " Regulated by Parker Hale" and is their original wartime code M192 stamped on it anywhere? How long have you owned it and what kind of paperwork did you have to go through to keep it? You have an Enfield Enforcer for Christ Sakes! There are folk that would sell off the wife or first born to get their hands on that rifle. Talk about the Enfield!!!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 21 2021 at 1:54pm
I think this topic has run its course so I'm going to put it to bed at this point.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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