Williams sight
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: After Market Enfields
Forum Description: What have you done to that Enfield??
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10595
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 7:59pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Williams sight
Posted By: 303 Hunter
Subject: Williams sight
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 8:00pm
|
Has anyone here used a Willians D5 SMLE rear sight? ------------- The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz |
Replies:
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 6:14am
|
The D5 was my alternative to a Lyman.....hope you have more success with your question than I did Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 3:40am
|
Most common match sights for SMLE are the BSA and Parker variations. I do not have any personal experience of Williams sights; sorry, that's not much help. However an ex-member here is the expert on SMLE sights; so if you copy the same question on the "Milsurps" forum you will probably get the info your looking for. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 1:40pm
|
What myself, and I think 303hunter are after, is info on an alternative sight to the usual hard to get, expensive and overly complicated Enfield sights. Personally, I,m after an aftermarket " peep " sight to use on my 375FNE LSA sporter that I can attach without having to remove the original dust cover. Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 1:55pm
|
The Parker-Hale & its competitors were never meant to be a hunting sight. That's why its what it is a complex expensive Target shooting mod. Are we talking No1 Or No4 rifles here? There's a guy making a replacement for the No1 rear sight blade that has an aperture to it instead of a notch, might that be what you're looking for? ![British Lee Enfield SMLE #1 Mk 3 Aperture 1/8" Peep Sight CNC Milled In USA](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-JcAAOSwQbNbNZBS/s-l640.jpg "British Lee Enfield SMLE #1 Mk 3 Aperture 1/8" Peep Sight CNC Milled In USA") ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 2:13pm
There is a gentleman on ePay that sells these little plug and play 0.5 inserts. 
|
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 2:17pm
|
Won't he have to mod the receiver slightly to fit that? (not the aperture insert, the rearsight.) I'm thinking he has an SMLE so that wont work.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 2:53pm
| I was referring to the insert only. |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 3:06pm
| I have just started shooting L-E's with apature sites. Never ever thought I could. Shamu had a post with a "Steam Punk" looking Parker -Hale site on his No1. I then started utilizing the very excellent original ladder apature sight that came with the military issue No4's. Most of the "precision" apature sites are made for the bench... and perform brilliantly. I looked at Williams and other aftermarket apature sites for my No4 for hunting, but in all honesty, if you want to hunt (not punch paper) with a No4 Lee Enfield, you'd be hard pressed to find a better system that's already there. Just sayin'... |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 3:13pm
Sorry, never used or even seen a Williams SMLE sight. The most commonly used would be either the BSA or the PH5A with a variety of eyepieces available. https://postimg.cc/ThWYD9VJ" rel="nofollow">  https://postimg.cc/WhGN91fD" rel="nofollow">  And the BSA No9 https://postimg.cc/ZvrSDwjk" rel="nofollow">  Edit to add : Just looked on Google for the Williams D5 rear sight. Confused. How would it be installed ? It looks as if it mounts on the RH side of the action - does it not then interfere with the operation of the bolt ? I cannot find any pictures of an SMLE with one installed, do you have any pics ? |
303 Hunter wrote:Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 7:58pm
|
No I don’t have pictures and it is supposed to be mounted on the right side. According the mounting instructions on their website, it requires some grinding of the charger bridge. As for the advantages over the regular sights would mainly be wind adjustment. But all of that is why I was asking about it. ------------- The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 10:38pm
|
I would not be grinding anything to fit a sight. There are plenty of obscure and hard to find Australian made target sights if the regular BSA and various Parker sights are not to your taste. Personally I can only speak from my own experience with the PH5A and No9G on the SMLE and the TZ 4/47 on the L39. They all do the job they were designed for; the only issue I have with the No9G is that the recoil can loosen the main hinge screw. But tis is probably because I currently have a homemade brass screw fitted. The Dioptre add on fitted to the standard SMLE sight in Shamu's post looks to be of little use to me. Being well forward of the eye; I think the hole will need to be too big for proper sighting, and probably no better than the standard sight. Would like to see photos of a Williams sight fitted to a Lee Enfield, just curious! ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 10:55pm
Found a picture of one!!!
|
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 11:13pm
A Williams and a Lyman sight mounted on an SMLE Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 11:17pm
|
Thanks for the pictures. if the cost of the sight is less than a Parker type; I think the difference would be offset by the drop in value of having to modify your rifle. If you need a screwdriver to adjust the windage; it's not really an adjuster is it! ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 04 2020 at 11:49pm
Thanks for finding the pictures - they look Soooooo wrong. Cutting away 'wood' and / or metal and drilling the side of the action to fit a 'commercial' sight doesn't do it for me, but, I guess each to their own, if its your rifle you can do what you want to do to it, it just makes the un-butchered ones rarer and more valuable. |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 05 2020 at 12:04am
If you are simply looking to introduce some windage adjustement and still have the original SMLE rear sight on your sporter, you could always source (not very expensive, maybe $30-$50) an original SMLE windage rear sight. The early SMLE's were fitted with a windage adjustable rear sight 'as standard' but the requirement was dropped when it was decided to simplify and speed up production. It was all part of the list of changes from the Mk3 to the Mk3* 
|
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 05 2020 at 8:46am
I knew I'd got one somewhere in the gun-room. This one was issued and used on three different rifles. serial numbers : 8562N F9462 G509 The original SMLE windage adjustable rear sight.   
|
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 05 2020 at 8:58am
|
I've used several Williams sights, but never the SMLE one. Basically they make one sight body, then add goodies to make different models. They also sell the goodies individually, like the knob adjustable windage screw. As has been mentioned they are drill & tap, which many hesitate to do because it devalues the rile to a collector. The ones I had (on a Remington 700) where itt was used as, what in today's jargon would be a BUIS worked just fine.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 12:00am
|
The value of my rifle is not of a concern as it came to me as a very rough sporter in 303-25 and after several incarnations, one of which is pictured below, it is now finally a 375x2 1/2 FNE. The main reason for a " hunting " peep sight is that I can't see normal barrel mounted sights....damn you old age!!  Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 8:35am
|
The Williams should do you fine, but I would add the finger adjustable windage knob, the screwdriver one is a pain. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 8:57am
Is that the same answer to the OP, although we have no idea what rifle the OP has. 303 Hunter - can you post some pictures of your rifle ? It could be a rare variant, if it is it may be better to not D&T it. |
Posted By: pisco
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 2:32pm
| I couldn’t come to drilling my smle for that I will stick to the old motty,centrel sights |
Posted By: pisco
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 2:36pm
| the smle windage adjustable rear sights make life so easy |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 2:56pm
| I wonder how much big game has been shot world wide with a Lee Enfield. |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 2:57pm
| Sorry. Meant to say the Calibre your rifle is now chambered in interests me. It must be a beast! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:11pm
|
No. The Williams sights are basically all the same body, (windage arm & elevator) within a series, with the individual mount for the rifle & a bunch of add on accessories that convert one Williams model to another. Anything for the sight body, not the mounting base is interchangeable (mostly) between all the same series of sights. Your thumbscrew windage screw would fit any sight arm/elevator, in the same series, regardless of rifle mount.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:20pm
Sorry, what I meant was that we have no idea what rifle the OP (303 Hunter)is asking about, as many people call 'any' Lee Enfield a SMLE irrespective of No or Mk, it could be anything. It could be anything from a SHTle Mk1 to a No1 Mk5 to a No4T, all of which are commonly called "Smelly's" I think we owe to him to give the best advice based on his rifle - if it is a rare variant he could be loosing $000's in value if he drills holes in it. At least then he can make an informed choice. The thread has got sidetracked to another poster asking about the sight for his sporter variant in an Australian wildcat calibre. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:34pm
|
I'm afraid you're missing the point. Read here: (all they do is change the base) You're going to drill & tap it anyway\ "For British Shot Magazine Lee Enfield, Nos. 1, 4, & 5." https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-5d-smle/" rel="nofollow - https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-5d-smle/ ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 4:45pm
|
....sorry sunshine, but the 375x2 1/2" Flanged Nitro Express is hardly an Australian wildcat.....I didn't exactly hi-jack the thread, I was after the same information. My LSA isn't really a beast, it has a medium 24" barrel and a reasonably heavy stock, I would say the recoil was " brisk ", no more than my 9.3x74r P14. Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 6:45pm
| so , are these calibers ausie alternatives to the 303 ? for what reason ? just curious |
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 2:11am
I find this hard to believe.....you have never heard of the 375x2 1/2" FNE?....it was developed by Holland and Holland in about 1909 ( I think )and it is basically a two and one half inch long 303 case firing a 270gr projectile......you're kidding me, right??       Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 5:37am
| It sounds like that round was developed for big game in the dark continent. That being said, I would probably use a site that is sighted in at 50 yards. If using a peep type site, I wouldn't think you would need windage adjustment as that rifle will probably lob them in at anything longer than a 100 yard target, and shouldn't be affected by winds at those distances. |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 07 2020 at 3:05pm
|
It would be nice if "303 Hunter " could tell us what rifle he wants to put a sight on. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 11:39am
|
Ok, sorry for the delay in my reply. So the reason for the first question was just for general info on the sight. So far the only Lee action rifles I have are the criterion barreled No4 mkI* that I believe is Savage made and a sporterized mkII Lee metford that I plan to rebuild into a Lee speed style rifle. I don't intend to use the the Williams sight on ether. The main reason for my interest in it is that it's mentioned in a book I have so I looked it up on their website and found that they still made it and was wondering how well it worked over the regular sights. ------------- The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 12:13pm
|
Thanks for letting us know the reason for your question. It was interesting to see the williams sight. Although I don't really see a use for it on a Lee Enfield due to the requirement to fit it on the right-hand side. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 12:44pm
It looked like you needed a screwdriver to adjust. Something you would do at the range, not while a rhino is charging! "Where's that bloody screwdriver?"
|
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 1:03pm
|
There were several versions, some need a screwdriver (or small coin) some didn't. Mostly the ones that did were up-gradable. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: June 08 2020 at 8:56pm
So how is the 375x2 1/2 as a cartridge? ------------- The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz |
Posted By: yumastepside
Date Posted: June 09 2020 at 1:25am
|
To be honest, the main reason I built the .375 was so I could have a rifle marked " Nitro Express " without taking out a second mortgage. With 270gr pills its a bit much but works exceptionally well on pigs, deer and goat. Apparently back in the day it was used for lion and leopard and was one of Elmer Keiths favourite elk cartridges. I'm hoping to try it out on our Asiatic Buffalo and maybe Sambar one day. It would probably be a good choice for your Black Bear, superior to the 45-70, 30% more energy than the 303, starting at about 2000 FPS with a 270gr, its still doing about 1650 at 200M. Not mine below, but I am currently restocking mine with the same style of stock. Mine has a standard bolt handle, 24" barrel and a short quarter rib with one standing/ one folding leaf and I was even thinking of machining in a pair of dovetails into the rib for QD rings and a scout scope....not traditional but I didn't want to build just another Lee Speed copy  Roger ------------- roger |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 09 2020 at 3:59am
| That sounds like a very interesting project. There is something about those Lee Speeds that appeals to me. |
Posted By: Hobocop
Date Posted: January 03 2021 at 3:31am
In process of putting back together a MA Lithgow SMLE 1940. I was not the person who took it a part nor do I know why. Any how at some point this Williamson site found its way on here. This would possibly be used by my son open sites maybe 50-100 yards out. Oh yeah and yes I now I'm missing a few things. I just started this yesterday when it found the way out of the back of the closet.
|
Posted By: lyman1903
Date Posted: March 01 2021 at 7:05pm
I know this would be a necro post, but I really like the looks of that, |
Posted By: lyman1903
Date Posted: March 01 2021 at 7:08pm
|
re the original question I've not had any non factory sight on an Enfield, however, I have used a lot of Lyman and Redfield (and a few Mossberg) sights on the various small bore guns I have, in the past, if one came with a Williams, it was removed, sold off on ebay, and replaced with a Lyman or Redfield, not the quality, they are relatively well made , but if you have ever used a Redfield or Lyman (or likely Parker Hale, Central etc ) you will not be happy with the Williams just my 2 cents
|
Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: March 28 2021 at 1:55pm
 Lyman: I agree totally with your .02. Williams sights don't repeat and are pretty much a set it and leave it type of device. The old steel Lyman and Redfield Receiver Sights were some of the best sighting devices ever made. Here's a pic of an adapter to mate a Redfield or Lyman to a #4 rifle. I have made several of them and my personal #4 Mk1 has a slightly different version with a Redfield Olympic mounted I have shown this here several times and actually sold one to a guy in AUS who was perfectly "Chuffed" with it. These use a 6-32 screw thru the left ear for the rear sight, and then a Ejector Screw lengthened by .060 for the front attachment. It is just a lengthened version of the earlier Redfield/Lyman mount. Randy   ------------- It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do. |