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Where are those dang 150’s!

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Category: Reloading
Forum Name: Reloading .303 British
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URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10613
Printed Date: October 21 2020 at 5:22pm
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Topic: Where are those dang 150’s!
Posted By: britrifles
Subject: Where are those dang 150’s!
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 6:08am
HTs question about seating depth with the Hornady 150 SP got me thinking that I’ve never tried that bullet in any of my No. 4’s.  I know I bought some a few years back, but do you think I could find them!???

When you get to be a ammo and reloading component hoarder like me, you start to run out of places to store this stuff and it gets spread around.  I started pulling stuff out off the shelves of bullets...

Not in here:


Not in here...


And not in my overflow stash...


I had about given up, but I was sure I had some.  Sat down on the floor in front of my loading bench and way back in the corner under the bench, there they were....



Now to load some up and see how they shoot.  





Replies:
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 8:40am
40 Rounds loaded up to test.  

Case: PPU neck sized, primer pockets uniformed
Primer:  WLR
Powder:  H4895, 36.0 gr, minimum charge per Hodgdon website
Bullet:  Hornady 150 gr SP, #3120, flat base, 0.312 dia. 
COL: 3.05 in (for reliable feeding from magazine)

I picked the minimum charge to start with, seeking reduced recoil for short range 200 Yd matches.  The reduced recoil will help in the rapids.  

I started with 3.00 inch COL but unless the bolt was moved fairly quickly, the bullet nose would get caught in the left side of the breech face as it popped out of the mag lip.   With 3.05 inch COL, the bolt could be cycled as slow as I wanted with one finger pressure.  





Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 1:37pm
 Seating the Hornady 150 SP at 3.05 inches COL, the bullet ogive is still a long way off the lands on my rifles.  It’s got to jump 0.2 inches to contact the lands.  It’s got a large ogive radius as compared to the Mk 7 service bullet and 174 gr SMK.  The bullet is just barely in the case mouth when contacting the lands. 

Hornady 150 SP on left, Canadian Mk 7 Service bullet in middle and 174 gr SMK on right.




3.250 inch COL when bullet touches the lands in my 69L Mk 1/3.




Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 3:19pm
Interested in how they shoot. On a different note, what is the B.C. of the mk 7 bullet?

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The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 4:16pm
The BC is quite high for a FB bullet of that weight and caliber. The nose filler being much less dense than the cylindrical lead slug.  0.467 IIRC.  


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 6:36pm
If you think the Hornady is bad check out the Speer!
You have to seat it outside the case entirely!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Stumpkiller
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 7:55pm
LOL

God meant the .303 to shoot 174 grains.  It's right there in the Book of Deuteronomy with what you can eat as I recall.


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Charlie P.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 6:20am
I do know that after quite a bit of field tests with 180's/174's the L42A1 clone shot Hornady 150 SP's far better than the heavier pills. Pretty much the difference between night and day. I set them at 3.04" OAL. I do use the same 150's in my main deer rifle, a Sporter, but they are seated even with the cannalure. They shoot extremely well out of that particular rifle.


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 6:39am
Originally posted by Stumpkiller Stumpkiller wrote:

LOL

God meant the .303 to shoot 174 grains.  It's right there in the Book of Deuteronomy with what you can eat as I recall.

That might be!

Midway has a 20% sale on 174 SMKs.  I bought another 2000.

My M1, which was also designed for 173 gr bullet, shoots the little Speer 125 gr flat base like a laser.  So you never know till you try!  




Posted By: Stumpkiller
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 6:55am
How do they do with the iron sights as far as elevation?

On second thought, It wasn't Deuteronomy, it was Mark: VII   ;-)



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Charlie P.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 7:05am
I thought that was

"The Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, Verses 2~7"



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Stumpkiller
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 11:04am
LOL

Thank you, Brother Mayard.

Quote And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu...



-------------
Charlie P.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 12:16pm
Sounds like the menu at Chinese wet market.


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Stumpkiller Stumpkiller wrote:

How do they do with the iron sights as far as elevation?


Not much difference, a click or two on a 1 MOA click adjustable aperture sight.  I write down the 200 yard zero on the load data sheet attached to the ammo box.   I typically count clicks up from zero, thou I rarely ever adjust the elevation setting unless I were to shoot at a range other than 200 yds.  All of this is based off a 6:00 hold on a 6 MOA black aiming mark, so POI is 3 MOA above the POA.  

I’ll be range testing the load this Friday and will report the results.  


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Stumpkiller Stumpkiller wrote:

LOL

Thank you, Brother Mayard.

Quote And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large chu...

From Monty Python movie, Month Python and the Holy Grail.

Killer Rabbit!



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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: WilliamS
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Stumpkiller Stumpkiller wrote:

LOL

God meant the .303 to shoot 174 grains.  It's right there in the Book of Deuteronomy with what you can eat as I recall.

Nonsense, the Book of Armaments clearly states that He meant the .303 to shoot 215 grains.  Humans just mucked it up when we wanted to go faster. 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 5:23am
Shot the Hornady 150 SP loads yesterday.  

PPU Case
WLR Primer
36.0 gr H4895
Hornady 150 gr SP
3.05 OAL

200 yards prone in sling.  Bullet POI was 6 MOA below my 174 SMK, 40.0 gr Varget Match load.  Recoil noticeably lighter.  10 shot groups were 3.7, 4.4 and 4.8 MOA and strung vertically.  One or two vertical fliers in each group.  Windage spread was about 2 to 2.5 MOA.  I’m going to increase the charge to 38.0 gr and see if this eliminates the fliers.  




Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 6:09am
britrifles... I found out in the two Enfield No4's I shoot Hornady 150's out of, the best accuracy was acheived when using 39 grs of H4895. 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 6:43am
It will be interesting to see if the Hornady 150’s will shoot as well as the 174 SMKs in my rifles.  Every rifle will be a bit different.  I was shooting this load from my Fulton Regulated Long Branch Mk 1/3 with BSA 5 groove barrel.  

I usually test in 0.5 grain increments, minimum of 40 rounds (four 10 shot groups).   I’ll probably try 38.0, 38.5 and 39.0g.  Hodgdon gives 40.0 gr of H4895 as maximum with this bullet.   




Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 8:31am
Yop. I started at 36 grs, shot two 10 round sessions (10 one day, 10 the next) logged results. I then went up 1 gr and repeated. As 40 great is the listed max, I knew I wouldn't be going any higher than 39 gr. That is where my rifles seemed to get the best groups. As a bonus, it is an amazing whitetail cartridge! I don't have a crono, but I suspect it's clicking along at about 2500 ft/sec. 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 8:45am
Its interesting your 150 gr prints lower than the 174. I found the same thing, must be something to do with barrel harmonics I guess.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 1:29pm
Shamu, where is the barrel bearing on your rifle?  I was shooting my Fulton No. 4 which has the bearing just in front of the first lightening cut in the forend.  Definitely different harmonics. 



The Hodgdon website gives the MV as 2447 fps For 36.0 gr H4895 and the Hornady 150 SP.  that’s about 50 fps faster than my 174 gr Sierra match load.  I wasn’t expecting that much difference in the rear sight setting.  This rifle does give higher elevation as MV increases, but the bullet weight would also affect the elevation.  

HT, 39 grains would be close to 2600 fps. 


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:01pm
I have shot this combo for years on whitetail... great results. Thanks britrifles... something told me his was a pretty sporty round on game. But still below a Max load.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 3:22pm
No center bedding on mine!
The 1st 1/2" for about 35° either side of BDC, the 1" BDC at the tip of the forend.
It shot so well, I was frankly afraid of messing it up with barrel packing.
Once, may years ago, I tried to "improve" a rather nice No4 Mk2. Lets just say it didn't go well, & I still remember the monumental bollocking I got from our SWO. Oddly you'll get a laugh out of this. His name was Gibbs, Frank Gibbs, he was in no way related to "F.W.Gibbs & sons", who were my LGS. They were literally walking distance from where I lived on Park Row, in Bristol.
Hug


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 6:09pm
My best shooting No. 4 is a Mk 2 DCRA 7.62 conversion that is bedded at the middle band with about 12 lbs pressure.  The standard muzzle bearing will indeed shoot well, but so far, I’ve not been able to get the standard forend stocked rifles to shoot quite as good as the Fulton center bearing or DCRA middle band bearing.  




Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 06 2020 at 6:49pm
your way more organized than the chaos in my reloading room - im working on it , 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 19 2020 at 3:46pm
Spent a great day at the range today, even got to shoot a Browning MG in 7.62.  The guy also had a BAR, should have asked him if I could fire that too.  Don’t see these every day.  

I increased the charge of H4895 from 36.0 gr to 38.0 gr with the Hornady 150 SP.  This seems to have cured the vertical stringing.  Shots all in the 10 ring at 200 yards, prone in sling.  These were all shot from my 69L Fulton No. 4 Mk 1/3.  Group below is just over 2 MOA.  Rear sight setting is about 3 MOA above my 174 gr Match load. The increased charge dropped the elevation setting by 2 MOA.  The barrel center bearing (at 5 inches from chamber) completely reverses the more typical trend of lower velocities increasing the POI on the target.   I plan to shoot more of this bullet and do a comparison of average scores and group sized of at least 10 groups (of ten shots each).  


  I may also try 39.0 gr, to see if group size changes.  





Shooting the Browning MG.  




Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 19 2020 at 4:03pm
Very nice shooting!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 19 2020 at 7:06pm
The promising thing with this load is that I had 5 sequential shots (# 2 thru #6) that were all inside the X ring, at about 2 inches apart (1 MOA). The sixth shot went to the right (#7) which I called right.  Then #8 was back in the X ring.  With a scope on the bench, this load might shoot MOA.  




Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 19 2020 at 7:20pm
39 grs of H4895 has been a very accurate powder load for 150's in my trusty deer rifle for many years. I also found the Hornady Spire Point shot better groups than the 150 gr Sierra ProHunters. As each of these rifles like their own medicine, it does take time to develop what works best. The one constant I do keep, primarily for convenience, is I use H4895 in all my Enfields. But again, that's just me.



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