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Third finger as trigger finger??

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URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10681
Printed Date: August 04 2020 at 9:49am
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Topic: Third finger as trigger finger??
Posted By: Fairbanks007
Subject: Third finger as trigger finger??
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 5:05pm
Trying to learn as much as I can about these fine rifles, so I spent some time on YouTube (I know, I know Ermm). Anyway, I came across this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fozy_qV8Xg&t 

(Sorry, the hyperlink won't post. Copy and paste the URL into your browser)

Question: Starting for sure by 4:30 of the video, the shooter is using his third finger (the finger finger) as his trigger finger. I can see where this *might* have some advantage in cycling the bolt, but it's so far off everything else I've ever seen or heard that I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it. Was this technique routinely taught back in the day, or something this dude came up with on his own?



Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 5:41pm
i know a couple trap shooters that do this - one is a butcher [meat cutter] that lost the other two in his 75+ years on earth , the other uses his index to control the shotgun side to side [so he tells me] and is missing the next in some industrial accident a few decades ago , ive not tried it yet , still have all my digits 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 5:59pm
It is used in the "Mad Minute". You keep your index finger and thumb on the bolt handle and the ring finger on the trigger.  Fire and cycle,fire and cycle. It takes a few tries to get it right.


Posted By: Fairbanks007
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

It is used in the "Mad Minute". You keep your index finger and thumb on the bolt handle and the ring finger on the trigger.  Fire and cycle,fire and cycle. It takes a few tries to get it right.


As I understand it, the "mad minute" is all about laying down suppressive fire, not much thought is given to accuracy, correct?


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 7:36pm
The “mad minute” was a training exercise, only hits on the target counted. I think it was shot at 300 yards. 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 8:22pm
Suppressing fire was done in layers and done with a fairly accurate shot placement.  I cannot say with any authority on the subject but I am to only assume that the index finger,unless damaged or injured, was the main body part used to make the rifles go bang.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 7:02am
I actually did a video on this. let me see if I can  find it.

Lee Enfield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SovVmYlDz5g&t=50s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SovVmYlDz5g&t=50s




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 9:58am
I've seen video's of people trying the "Mad Minute" using the index finger and thumb to cycle the bolt and another finger for the trigger. But I really don't see the point.
What is the point of doing the "Mad Minute" with an 80 year old firearm. Yes it was useful in WWI; but do you really want to put that extra wear and tear on your rifle. It's a bit like taking you WWII Harley Davidson and holding at maximum rev's for a minute. Why?


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: pisco
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 11:18am
I’m with you zed why flog the poor old girl parts are hard to get as it is and pricy


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 12:56pm
I posted it just for information sake.
If you do it or not is your choice!
It IS handy for a fast follow up shot or two as well though.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Fairbanks007
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I've seen video's of people trying the "Mad Minute" using the index finger and thumb to cycle the bolt and another finger for the trigger. But I really don't see the point.
What is the point of doing the "Mad Minute" with an 80 year old firearm. Yes it was useful in WWI; but do you really want to put that extra wear and tear on your rifle. It's a bit like taking you WWII Harley Davidson and holding at maximum rev's for a minute. Why?


I agree that these old warhorses should not be abused. Owning a piece of history brings a certain responsibility. To be fair though, the video in my original post showed the shooter getting off a round about every 4 or 5 seconds. Quick, but not necessarily abusive.

Having said all of the above, it IS his rifle, if he wants to beat on it a bit that's his choice. I disagree with that choice, but it is his to make.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 7:28pm
I have a Long Branch No4Mk1*. The receiver was made in 1942. The barrel was brand new still in the wax wrapper when I bought it,as was the bolt. The cocking piece, sear,and trigger are unissued New Old Stock items. For lack of a better term, this rifle is brand new yet 78 years old. I use it for target shooting only. I did Mad Minute style fire the rifle on one occasion however just to see if I could. I can. I will never do that again because I do not need to. That all being said. I can see someone doing this for reenactments using blanks though. The kids posting YouTube videos of themselves attempting the Mad Minute are doing it in my honest opinion to show the world how badass they are and are not old enough to truly appreciate the rifle itself and its roughly 130 year old service history.


Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 8:33pm
A modern day application of the “mad minute” would be bear defence.
Back in 2012 on the Alberta Outdoors forum someone asked about using the .303 British for bear defence and one men told a story about a bear in counter he had when he was 11.
He and his dad were out moose hunting when he stumbled upon a grizzly bear on a kill. He fired all 10 rounds from the magazine, hitting it 6 times, killing it. And he was able to do so because his grandpa had taught him how to rapid fire a Lee-Enfield.

P.S. great video Shamu.

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The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz


Posted By: Stumpkiller
Date Posted: June 29 2020 at 8:47pm
I'm a fan of the "one good shot" mindset.  ;-)

Rapid/volley fire is great for multiple, dispersed targets to keep their heads down.  Or if someone else is buying and supplying your ammo.


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Charlie P.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: June 30 2020 at 6:45am
Originally Rapid fire was with the trigger finger, and Major Barlow in his book,
"Elements of Rifle Shooting",   states 30 to 35  Aimed rounds a minute should be quite  possible for the expert shot.
Rapid was very valid, as was seen in the First World War on many occasions.
In my case, ammo is much too scarce to try it, and yes, it will give the rifle a bit more work than it needs if done too much.  :-)
 
I've posted the results of rapid fired of the 300 yd berm by Sgt Maj F. Hart, at Ranwich school of musketry before, so will not include it here in full.
(300 yd mound, 2nd class figure target 4ft square, 41 rounds in 55 seconds, registering 38 hits.)
 
Richard.
 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 30 2020 at 7:31am
That’s an incredible feat.  

Other than heating up the barrel, I wouldn’t think it’s too detrimental to the rifle.  You would sure burn up ammo if you practiced that a lot. 

In the CMP vintage military matches, we get 80 seconds to fire 10 rounds, which includes the time to get into the prone position from standing and one recharge of the magazine.  Once I’m in position, I take a shot about every 4 seconds.  Very slow in comparison to the “mad minute” style.





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