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Enfield No4 Mk2 with Bayonet

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10691
Printed Date: September 18 2020 at 10:58am
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Topic: Enfield No4 Mk2 with Bayonet
Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Subject: Enfield No4 Mk2 with Bayonet
Date Posted: July 03 2020 at 12:42am
Hi all, I've found myself collecting exclusively No4 Mk2s and came across one with the matching No9 Mk1 bayonet. Does anyone have knowledge as to how common/ uncommon this is and how much value it adds to the rifle? I'd say the rifle is in 7-8/10 condition wise. Finish mostly intact, some wear spots, light dings in the wood but no cracks, overall very serviceable condition. I have several already, but none with a bayonet. Before I go paying a premium, I was curious how much something in that ballpark would be worth. Thanks, 

Logan



Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 03 2020 at 8:25pm
i would say , if you have a mk2 with matching numbers bayonet , you have one of the later contract rifles , ill not add a lot of value as these are not what folks are seeking as collectors but as a nice rifle and bayonet combination you could not ask for much better - in general earlier rifles and bayonets were issued desperately so it does not add that much unless someone is really looking for that - there are folks looking but the market will be smaller IMHO , others may differ 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 03 2020 at 8:31pm
The  "PF" serialized No. 9 Mk. I bayonets were packed with post-war Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifles produced at the ROF Fazakerly for export to foreign countries. The PF number corresponds to the rifle's serial number. This example's serial number is part of the Irish Contract for No. 4 Mk. II rifles that was never delivered


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 03 2020 at 8:35pm
Interesting. I searched the serial in my No4 collector's book by Charles Stratton and it said this serial is in a range of a shipment to Burma. It's a 1953 mk2. I just didnt know how many post wars these days actually have the matching bayonet. None of my other 3 actually have theirs


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 11:44am
Its actually way more complex than that.
British Issued rifles didn't have serialized bayonets, there was no "matching" it it fit it went with it.

The Irish Government did match & so a serial matched bayonet May be Irish, or something else even.
Some "Irish Contracts" were shipped & issued, some were shipped & never issued & some were never shipped at all.
Even the range of numbers for contract rifles vary a bit depending on where you get them from.
One version:
An incomplete list:
PF301548-PF304047 Anglo-Egyptian Sudan
PF309348-PF359347 Irish Republic
PF359748-PF359817 Zambia
PF359818-PF359952 Singapore
PF359953-PF360052 Jamaica
PF360053-PF360202 Trinidad
PF360203-PF360238 St. Vincent
PF360239-PF360258 St. Kitts
PF360259-PF360459 War Office
PF360460-PF381159 Uganda
PF361160-PF361259 Parker Hale
PF361260-PF401086 Burma
PF401087-PF401459 Allocated for T conversion
PF404157-PF404206 Parker Hale
PF405393-PF405412 St. Vincent
PF405513-PF405712 Admiralty contract
PF405813-PF405848 Fulton
PF407649-PF407648 Trinidad
PF407649-PF407728 Zanzibar
PF411229-PF411264 Fulton
PF411265-PF411461 Kenya
PF411462-PF411471 Hong Kong
Different version:
PF 100000 PF 120000 South Africa?
PF 118000 PF 217999 N/K 100,000 Start of Mk II Production.
PF 218000 PF 219799 N/K 1800
PF 219799 PF 275947 N/K 56,148
PF 225948 PF 250947 N/K 25,000
PF 250948 PF 301547 British Army 50,600
PF 301548 PF 304047 Sudanese Order 2499
PF 304048 PF 309347 N/K 5300
PF 309348 PF 359347 Irish Republic 49,999?
PF 359348 PF 359747 N/K 400
PF 359748 PF 359817 Zambia 469
PF 359818 PF 359852 Singapore 34
PF 359953 PF 360052 Kingston 99
PF 360053 PF 360202 Trinidad 149
PF 360203 PF 360238 St Vincent 35
PF 360239 PF 360258 St Kitts 19
PF 360259 PF 360459 War Office? 200
(21 missing numbers)
PF 360480 PF 361159 Uganda 679
PF 361160 PF 361259 Parker Hale 99
PF 361028 10/53
PF 361280 PF 401086 Burma 39,806
PF 401087 PF 401495 No 4 (T) Rifles ? 408
PF 401496 PF 404156 N/K 2661
PF 401157 PF 404206 Parker Hale 3049
PF 404207 PF 405392 N/K 1186
PF 405393 PF 405412 St Vincent 19
PF 405413 PF 405512 N/K 100
PF 405513 PF 405712 Admiralty 100
PF 405713 PF 405812 N/K 100
PF 405813 PF 405848 G E Fulton (Bisley) 35
PF 405849 PF 407448 N/K 1600
PF 406534 10/49
PF 407449 PF 407648 Trinidad 199
PF 407649 PF 407728 Zanzibar 79
PF 407729 PF 411228 N/K 3500
PF 411229 PF 411264 G E Fulton (Bisley) 35
PF 411265 PF 411481 Kenya 216
PF 411482 PF 411471 ? Hong Kong 11
PF 411472 PF 412789 N/K 1318
PP1 PP43 Parker Hale
PP44 PP47 To an unknown UK source!



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 12:02pm
The more you know. So there really is no way to tell then? It just happens that this particular bayonet is serialized to the rifle. So the value is dependent upon who values the serialization and who doesnt? 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 12:25pm
It doesn't make a huge difference. Price is more determined by collectors whims.
"Irish Contract" is a perfect example. It wasn't a really small run & many just went into stores mummy-wrapped. Yet many will put an inflated value on them because they "Freed Ireland". Unfortunately they didn't that was years before the No4 was created the older SMLE's with the "FF" stamps were that actual rifles from that, but they hold no special value!
Go figure eh?
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?245077-Irish-SMLEs" rel="nofollow - https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?245077-Irish-SMLEs


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 12:34pm
Exactly Logan.Lacher !!
I have been watching the market for certain spikes and the prices are either way below market value or someone has decided that it is rusty gold that is need of a good cleaning. Of particular interest to you maybe,a few No9's for sale that I have seen range from $25.00 on up to $199.00. The latter being the guy thinks it is the rarest of the rarest bayonets out there. 
For reference purposes only if it helps. I have a No9MkI made at the Pakistan Ordnance Factory in 1961. Paid $25.50 for it complete with the scabbard and frog. I also have the South African Armscor made No9MkI with the Uzi blade fitted.  Total price including scabbard and frog? $39.00.


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 1:22pm
Well I appreciate the clarification. I found myself drawn to No4 Mk2s  specifically so it's good to know that sort of thing. They may not have  the prestige of war rifles but they're clean and the last of a long line. If you're in the US, have a great independence day. I ended up picking up the rifle in question for 750. Whether it's a great deal or not elsewhere, gun broker is really my only option here in Oklahoma. I'd be lucky if I knew a gunsmith here that knew what an Enfield was, or an SMLE vs No4, e.t.c


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 2:51pm
Post a bunch of pics, we can help you.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 3:02pm
I'll throw some pictures up once it arrives. Hopefully it's here sometime next week. I'll have to give it a look over for headspace and what not and detail strip/ clean it so I'll have some better photos than the gun broker listing then


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 04 2020 at 9:24pm
i think you narrowed in on an era of these that you can get a good deal of help on here - we have a lot of shooter/collectors here and that is the seemingly preferred of the shooters , 
i always tended toward the older models in my preferences as im more historic minded collector , not that i ignored these fine rifles at all , had half a dozen of the mk2 or mk2 conversions in my accumulation over the years , 

do post photos , that will get you a lot more accurate info 


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 3:06pm
he!!o all,

As promised, here are some photos. I have checked the bore, it's in great shape, nice and shiny. Used a snap cap and looks like plenty of life left at the barrel end. Headspace puts it fairly far from closing on a No-Go Gauge, about 3/4 closed. Now I may be mistaken, but it appears to have serialized walnut furniture. I wasn't aware of No4. Mk2s with walnut, but I'm sure one of you helpful folks have the answer. No exterior rust or pitting that I can see. Gonna detail strip it tonight and check under the wood. For $750, it seems worth it to me, but I'm curious what y'all think






Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 3:09pm
I think thats stained beech, it has the distinctive "fish scale" grain in places?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 3:33pm
Ah, not super familiar with different woods, but that makes more sense


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 4:36pm
It's distinctive & unique to beech.
Beech the the top, birch at the bottom.
http://www.trfindley.com/origstmps/beech.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.trfindley.com/origstmps/beech.jpg


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 4:40pm
Any thoughts as to the value of the rifle? I'd imagine the staining might put off some but personally I'm more focused on the integrity of the action, which is there


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:49am
The staining may be original.
A lot of blond wood was darkened by stains at the factory as the pale wood was thought to be too conspicuous in battle.
Its hard to state a value as it varies with location & other things but round here (western MD) I'd say $500~650.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 7:34am
Oh wow, that's cool to know. As for the value, if only God worked miracles like a $500 solid, functional, matching Enfield here in Oklahoma. The only Enfield I've seen here for sale at a gun store was a 1943 long branch that had ok barrel life but had been totally reblued, had deep pitting in areas that had been deeply grounded/ sanded, L type sight only, import stamped all over, and I couldn't check headspace because "it's safe to shoot", plus it was $600.


Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:29pm
Poeple are asking $800 to $1,200 for full wood Lee Enfields here in Canada

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The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:42pm
Yikes, I hope that's CAD and not USD. I can usually only shop for rifles on gunbroker thanks to the lack of gun store Enfields. Is there anywhere else I should be looking?


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Logan.Lacher Logan.Lacher wrote:

Yikes. Is there anywhere else I should be looking?

Armslist.com 


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:49pm
Good point. I do check there every couple weeks but theres a grand total of four listings in Oklahoma. Not sure I'd do an interstate sale on armslist. I did get a No4 Mk 2 through armslist for ~$700 trade value. Solid shooter, little worn on the finish but rock solid


Posted By: Logan.Lacher
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:55pm
I have a WTB listing up which helps. Guess I just haven't encountered the super sweet deal. The rifles here might not be under $700 for something worth buying but that's better than classic firearms "collector grade" Enfields 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 8:36pm
There is a guy living in Tucson Arizona on armslist that has an unissued UF A***** No4Mk2 with bayonet. He is asking $1100.00 for it or trade. 


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 7:07am
303 Hunter is right, here in Canada the asking prices for decent full wood #4's, currently is $800-$1200 Can$ and keeps going up, especially the all matching numbers rifles. My local gun store just sold a shooter grade #'s matching #5/MK1 for $750 C$. (no bayonet).

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 3:19pm
Canuck... agree. Asking the same here in Manitoba... asking. A really nice condition No4 Mk2 would probably go for about 750-850 Loonies in my province. People here have owned and sold thousands of Sporters and appreciate them as a fine hunting rifle. Not a huge interest in original full wood Lee Enfields. Not to be saying there isn't a market, but it's a niche one. Nice rifle!



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