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mk4 no 1 mystery

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10939
Printed Date: June 19 2021 at 8:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: mk4 no 1 mystery
Posted By: Marco1010
Subject: mk4 no 1 mystery
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:31pm
Hi Guys I know you all love a bit of a mystery mission.
Just got hold of a 1942 No4 Mk1 sporterised rifle. metalwork is in very nice condition, with a 5 groove barrel in 9/10 condition. Receiver and bolt have matching numbers.
There is very faint electro pencil on the left side of the receiver, but I can only make out No 4 Mk ?? I'm more of a No1 Mk 3 guys so the markings in the photos are a bit of a mystery to me and can't find either my Skennerton or Statton books.
Any help much appreciated



Replies:
Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:34pm


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:35pm


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:36pm


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:37pm


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:38pm


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 10:40pm


Posted By: WilliamS
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 8:56am
I can't see the markings you are describing in your picture, but if it is electropenciled and not engraved I would think it is almost certainly No4 MkI FTR markings. It can't be Mk1/2 since the trigger has not been moved to the action body.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 9:37am
The serial number is not a known number from any of the five plants that produced the rifle and to me, the reciever looks to have been scrubbed of all original marks.  Your clues as to who possibly produced the rifle are the location of the 1942 stamp and the bolthead release behind the charging bridge.
BSA had a tendency to date stamp the butt socket more often than the other manufacturering plants.
The current stampings you show might have been done by those East Indian folk who scrub everything and then stamp the crap out if it all willy nilly like. There is the pre 1968 England stamp, is there any 2.222" 303 18.5 Tons per □" anywhere on the barrel?


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 3:14pm


Proof markings, also trigger has clear stamping showing B & S.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 4:14pm
Does the rifle have Parker Hale or  Santa Fe  stamped on the barrel anywhere?


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 4:25pm
it looks intact and returnable to original , if that would be your intent , 


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 6:58pm
Hi Goosic

Nothing else on the barrel. I agree It could have gone through an FTR at some stage. There is a faint set of number stamps on the underside of the bolt that don't match the existing matching numbers on the wrist and rear face of the bolt handle.
Also looking at the left side of the receiver the id markings show a faint stamped no 4 Mk 1
Bolt head looks to have BSA stamp?


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 7:07pm
As A Square stated. It looks intact metalwise and you should have no issues returning it to its former military configuration. 
And yes, that is a M47C stamp on the bolthead. 
I apologize that I cannot offer you anymore assistance in deciphering the marks on the rifle.


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 8:39pm
Thanks Goosic and A-Square  you have assisted me a lot on this one.
I bought the rifle for $300 included 3 boxes of factory ammo, spare magazines, and a gun safe, so a bit of a bargain i think.  Now the fun of taking her back to original condition. I have a nice set of handguards that should match, just need a new lower wood and a couple of bands.  
The off to the range to see how it performs.

cheers Marco1010


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 12:26am
Is the first digit of the serial number a G or a 6 ?

A 'G and 4 numbers' could quite easily be an early BSA serial number, add in the B above the serial number and it starts to look even more possible.


Posted By: devrep
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 3:47am
I would be curious to shoot it as is and see how it performs.

-------------
double gun


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 9:59am
Yes I think that it is very likely to be a G rather than a 6, the G is badly struck on the wrist which makes it less obvious.   I seem to recall reading somewhere that a fair number of BSA rifles were refurbished for resale into the USA in the 70's and 80's similar to FTR standard. perhaps thats whats happened here?

The finish is quite good, looks to be some sort of phosphating rather than blueing. No signs of any suncorite anywhere.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 10:06am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Is the first digit of the serial number a G or a 6 ?

A 'G and 4 numbers' could quite easily be an early BSA serial number, add in the B above the serial number and it starts to look even more possible.
Did BSA ever start a No4Mk1 production run with the first digit being a 9 after the prefix?
I have always been under the assumption that BSA serial numbers started with a 3 after a Prefix.


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Is the first digit of the serial number a G or a 6 ?

A 'G and 4 numbers' could quite easily be an early BSA serial number, add in the B above the serial number and it starts to look even more possible.
Did BSA ever start a No4Mk1 production run with the first digit being a 9 after the prefix?
I have always been under the assumption that BSA serial numbers started with a 3 after a Prefix.

Don't get confused with the 'factory identifier' (3 for BSA), they came in later.
Early on they started with A0001 to A9999, then B0001 - B9999 then C0001 to C9999 etc

So yes there will be quite a number of BSA produced rifles with a 9 after the 1st letter.

G9081 will simply be the 79,794th rifle produced (if I got the maths correct)

Note there are only 4 numerical digits, not 5.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 3:30pm
i was going to mention that - four digits would be expected on early rifles , the five digits were later contracts , 


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 7:17pm
I love how these old rifles get the old grey matter working for us all, life could be rather boring without playing around with Lee Enfields for a hobby.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 9:40pm
here that and these present so many things to research , it is what prompted me to divest my american US rifles a decade ago and to devote myself to these , there is nothing more satisfying than owning and understanding what you own - no matter how complex and difficult this has been the quests that have made me happy , 



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