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Ishapore 1947 questions

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Ishapore Enfields
Forum Description: Let's see those Indian Enfields!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10956
Printed Date: August 02 2021 at 6:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Ishapore 1947 questions
Posted By: mauserdad
Subject: Ishapore 1947 questions
Date Posted: November 20 2020 at 1:07pm
Just acquired a 1947 in very good shape. It is import marked.  All metal has matching numbers including the clip. First off, is I cant find the production figures for 1947. Is there a yearly production table? Second, the bottom wood appears to have been replaced, forearm and butt stock. The forearm underneath is marked DP ( Drill Purpose?). I read some where that Springfield Sporters sold this wood. What is the story behind this? So India did not install this DP wood? What type of wood was this? Wood is bigger than the brass butt plate. This is not a DP rifle. It came with a cloth sling marked J&A.H.1944 arrow right. Tan colored. Also had a plastic oiler and pull through cord, Also received 100rds of 1950 FN ammo. I feel I go a great deal for $200. The metal has caked black grease all over. The stock had been varnished. Used a chemical stripper and removed. In process of hand rubbing BLO. This will make a fine addition to my Enfield collection. Thanks for any help. Sorry for the long post. Ed



Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 20 2020 at 6:26pm
ed , no problem with length of post but there is a lot to cover here - 

there are production figures by year in the straton collector series - not absolute but best available so far , i no longer have my copy it resides with another collector here , perhaps he will add to this post , india was producing then , 

i suspect the timber was replaced after civilian purchase , the indians did not put the DP wood on it , not surprising its outsized but it could be fitted ? 
and little idea without photos of whose wood it was , thus the type cant be identified but a lot of DP wood came from early rifles and it could well be walnut , 

sounds like you got a good buy to me , would love to see your refinish if you can post photos , 




Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 20 2020 at 6:53pm
Sir, thank you for your response. I kind of figured it was a civilian installed stock especially after reading a posting about Springfield Sporters. Again thank you and maybe others will comment.


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 20 2020 at 7:20pm
I will try to post Pic's when I have finished cleaning her up.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 20 2020 at 10:37pm
Do not unscrew the buttstock first . You will crack the forestock. 


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 21 2020 at 3:36am
Thank you Sir. Yep, the butt stock is the last piece I remove thankfully. Never knew what you said.


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 21 2020 at 5:44pm
Gents here are pictures of the wood and the sling. Still trying to determine wood type and pr0duction figure for 1947. Thanks. Ed
 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 21 2020 at 6:21pm
looks walnut to me but i could be wrong 

thats a bantam buttstock unless im seeing wrong , 


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 21 2020 at 6:59pm
That's what I am thinking. But I understand they used other native hardwoods which I do not know what they look like. Thanks for the response.


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 22 2020 at 5:40am
Don’t think I’ve seen that wavy grain pattern thats on the forend before.  Butt stock does look like oak.  Nice shape too.  


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 22 2020 at 6:48am
That is really nice wood! 


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 22 2020 at 9:56am
Thanks Gents. what does coachwood look like?


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 22 2020 at 11:48am
A bit similar to walnut, but the heartwood is almost purple.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 22 2020 at 12:29pm
Thank you Sir. Still cant find any production figures for 1937. I was informed on another board the sling is a reproduction.


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: November 23 2020 at 6:48am
Production figures for Ishapore rifles are difficult to find at best. The Indians to this day are very, very secretive about arms production both past and present. Considering that RFI is still an active state manufacturer I highly doubt we will see true production numbers anytime soon.

I will look up the numbers that Stratton lists in his book. As A_Square said, that is the best data set on Indian production to date.


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 23 2020 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

Production figures for Ishapore rifles are difficult to find at best. The Indians to this day are very, very secretive about arms production both past and present. Considering that RFI is still an active state manufacturer I highly doubt we will see true production numbers anytime soon.



He is getting the same answer on each of the forums where he has asked the question.
 
It may not be the answer he would prefer, but at least it is consistent.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 23 2020 at 9:47am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

Production figures for Ishapore rifles are difficult to find at best. The Indians to this day are very, very secretive about arms production both past and present. Considering that RFI is still an active state manufacturer I highly doubt we will see true production numbers anytime soon.



He is getting the same answer on each of the forums where he has asked the question.
 
It may not be the answer he would prefer, but at least it is consistent.


it is the best he is going to get - its the truth as it exists to date , not sure where stratton got his data and most agree its not complete but so far his was the most accurate/reliable we have available , 
i would think any attempt to sort through records might be complicated at best and with all the refurb work they did there could be mountains of records - if they kept/preserved them , 


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 23 2020 at 4:42pm
Thank Gents. Doing my research I did read a article that stated India was secretive anout production figures. Maybe some day we will find out.


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 7:07am
I forgot to look up the info in the book last night. I'll get myself a reminder and get on that.


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 3:36pm
Thank you Mr Bear


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 7:01pm
Okay, I looked up the production estimates in Stratton's book on the SMLE. For the period from 1946 to 1974 it lists Ishapore production of 345,000 Mk 3* rifles with the caveat that this is based on observed serial numbers. So, it could be higher.

Also of note is that there is a table in the book listing serial number prefix letters observed by year. It does not list anything for 1946 and 1947 but I would assume the letter would be J. 1945 is listed as J and 1948 is listed as J and K being observed.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 8:01pm
thanks bear - i knew that was there but i knew i could not access it anymore , 


Posted By: mauserdad
Date Posted: November 24 2020 at 8:26pm
Bear again I thank you for your help. My Serial # is 65028 J. I also have Statton's book and saw no figure for 1947. That's why I have been asking. Again thank you. 



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