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C7 22 cal training rifle magazine

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Stuff for Enfields
Forum Name: Wanted Items *Must Have 20 Points to Post.
Forum Description: Place requests for items people may have that you need!! ALL APPLICABLE FEDERAL, STATE & LOCAL LAWS MUST BE FOLLOWED!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11115
Printed Date: October 27 2021 at 9:30am
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Topic: C7 22 cal training rifle magazine
Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Subject: C7 22 cal training rifle magazine
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 2:47pm
Well, I guess the "subject" pretty much says what I am looking for. I have a #1 MK lll 22 cal training
 rifle without a repeatable magazine but the one for the C7 22 cal built on the #4 rifle will fit my #3.
 Willing to pay for a rare item like this. Thanks, Paul in Arizona

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Enfield restorer and collector



Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 3:06pm
im not sure that to be true - the no1 rifles [which is what you have] used a different magazine than the no4 rifles , the Cno7 rifle was built on the no4 action as a single shot rifle and the box mag [although marked 22cal] was nothing but an empty box that collected your brass , 

the no7 mag [different rifle but still a no4] had an insert that was a repeatable loading mag , this was the only trainer with this function , these are rare rifles these days but it was a no4 based rifle and these are extremely difficult to find , as well as extremely expensive when you do and i do not think it will fit your no1 rifle mag well , ive often thought it might be something some entrepreneur might be able to justify producing if one could find a readily available 22cal mag to fit to the no4 box with an easy to manufacture adapter  and get to function but so far i know of no-one doing it , 

not meaning to throw water on this parade but imparting what ive learned of trainers in my 20 years of collecting them , 


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 4:30pm
#3 and # 4 magazines are interchangeable, I have 6 #4's and 22 # 3's and I can switch magazines all day long and they work. The #4 has an extra catch at the bottom of it that the #3 doesn't need but no, matter, they are interchangeable. Thanks for your thoughts though.

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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by Paul in Arizona Paul in Arizona wrote:

#3 and # 4 magazines are interchangeable, I have 6 #4's and 22 # 3's and I can switch magazines all day long and they work. The #4 has an extra catch at the bottom of it that the #3 doesn't need but no, matter, they are interchangeable. Thanks for your thoughts though.

Paul. The magazines maybe interchangeable but the magazine you are requesting will not function in your .22. The bolt heads are completely different. The British No 7 bolthead is undercut to make it possible to strip, feed and eject the much smaller-based .22LR round from the BSA converted magazine.  The No1 bolt is just the standard .303 one with an offset floating firing pin and a different extractor.  The single feed loading platform i showed you in my .22 will be your best option and much easier to locate...


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: January 11 2021 at 10:00pm
Goosic, thanks for the valuable information. The magazine you showed me is a single loader? I thought
 it would take at least 5 rounds, maybe 10. In any case, where can I look to get one?
Thanks,
Paul


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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 12 2021 at 7:24am
im confused by the use of #3 in the above posts , the #3 rifle was the pattern 1914 , the trainer you mention in the OP is a no1 based rifle and most properly a #2 


Posted By: devrep
Date Posted: January 12 2021 at 9:42am
me too but I'm guessing he meant MkIII.

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double gun


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 12 2021 at 11:08am
I think the interchangeability of the magazine is not the real issue. But the fact that the bolt head is completely different; and that will mean a No2MkIV* (SMLE.22) would not load a .22 round from the No7 mag'. 
If someone has both SMLE .22 and the magazine fed No7; maybe they could confirm.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: January 12 2021 at 2:33pm
yep, the 22 trainer I have is a #1 MKlll rifle in appearance. If they named this rifle a #2
 to designate it as a 22 trainer I was unaware of that. Interesting that my "handle" on the forum is, "restorer and collector" since I have 28 Enfields of one kind or another but after being on the forum and personally have had the great pleasure of meeting Goosic in person I think I'll change my "handle" 
to "greenhorn with a lot to learn." Unfortunately, although I like to "restore" them, to me, that's either putting new wood on them and/or improving the appearance of the metal parts. I have never gotten into
all the historical and detailed information like to many of you on the forum have, you're all amazing. I have one of the Skennerton books but have not thoroughly examined the contents. I am basically an M1 Garand nut and devote most of my gun hobby to those, all 10 of them, and have untold hours of learning through many of the publications and forums out there on Garand's, it's endless. In the past couple years I also developed an interest in the AR 15's and have 2 of them, a Bushmaster HB match and a custom made  in Phoenix, AZ by a gent who custom builds them at BTE (battle tested equipment.) Both AR's have a Vortex Viper 6 x 24 x 50 scope on them. The BTE has a 5 groove barrel, Nitride treated and with my hand loads is a tack driver. I'm a nut for small groups, every round I fire from the Garand's and the AR's is recorded so I learn which rifle shoots best with a particular load and then I shoot only that one unless I decide to experiment with a different load combination. I also do a lot of pistol shooting at C2 Tactical here in Scottsdale, I have a 40 gun collection of pistols including 7 1911 versions and many of the older model S&W revolvers. So much to do and so little time, HA! HA! AND, time may be running out on me since I'm 84 years young and soon to be 85.


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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: RichardSuhkoi
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 9:05pm
wow, there is a fair bit of interchangeability to absorb. 
I have in my junk an Enfield .22 follower and spring. I will try to find it and post it. Does that sound familiar? I assume it is for single shot use. Now I’m so curious. 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 4:50am
I don’t think it would be that difficult to make a CNo.7 .22 magazine from a No. 4 magazine.  The follower is just a loading platform held up by the mag spring.  It is made from sheet metal. Might be able to make up a hardwood form block to shape a follower.  


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 9:42am
thanks, I would be interested in seeing that

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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 11:59am
Paul, with regard to identifying the SMLE .22's.  It can get confusing! There many versions.
Most common are the No2MkIV*. Other's include Pattern 18 (rare) and Pattern 14.
However there are SMLE's converted to .22 with no change to original wrist stamps. 
For example, I have a 1918 SMLE in .22 sleeved by Parker Hale, that has no .22 stamps apart from the proof house stamps. These may have been private contract after WW for cadets or overseas contracts.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 2:50pm
Zed, thanks for that valuable information. Right now that rifle is at a gun store on consignment for sale
so its not handy for me to inspect for the varieties you point out. I will do that ASAP as I feel its important.

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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: RichardSuhkoi
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 9:25pm
Here is my .22 Enfield follower I think for a No.9.
I will be selling it (I am downsizing). Very hard to evaluate as I can’t find others for sale. 


Posted By: RichardSuhkoi
Date Posted: March 03 2021 at 10:47pm


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 4:16am
unfortunately I can’t get to my CNo.7 at the moment, but that does look like a CNo.7 follower. There is a U shaped cutout at the back for the .22 cases to drop into the mag box.


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 7:48am
I have never seen one of these before so I can't be of any help on the value either. The top looks like it feeds the bullets from the side of the top surface rather than from the middle which has a bulge in it
but if that's the way it works its not an issue as long as it works. I think someone told me I would also need a different extractor & ejector to make all this work like a normal bolt action rather than a single shot. The extractor and ejector in the rifle currently extracts and ejects the 22 cartridge now, I have put about 25 rounds through it and it worked fine so go figure. If you can come up with a price for the follower, let me know what it is and we'll go ahead with the deal and I'll give it a try. I assume you will let me return it if it doesn't work out and I'll pay all the shipping. It doesn't look like the rifle is going to sell at the consignment store so I'll bring it home next time I'm there. Thanks again for all the help. I'm going back to you photo again now and try to picture it in m y rifle and exactly how it may work.


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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 8:00am
I did some research see the URL below. The follower you have just makes it easier to load the 22 cartridge rather than trying to feed it into the chamber with your fingers like I do now. In any case, it's still a single shot with no capability to load more than one round at a time, spent cartridges fall through the opening in the rear and collect in the bottom of the magazine.

see the excellent link here with great images
https://www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifle_No.7-C.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifle_No.7-C.html

What I had hoped to arrange with this rifle is a magazine and follower that held 10 or more rounds
but perhaps that is not possible. Maybe the one you have could be re-engineered to allow it to hold
multiple rounds?


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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Paul in Arizona Paul in Arizona wrote:

I have never seen one of these before so I can't be of any help on the value either. The top looks like it feeds the bullets from the side of the top surface rather than from the middle which has a bulge in it
but if that's the way it works its not an issue as long as it works. I think someone told me I would also need a different extractor & ejector to make all this work like a normal bolt action rather than a single shot. The extractor and ejector in the rifle currently extracts and ejects the 22 cartridge now, I have put about 25 rounds through it and it worked fine so go figure. If you can come up with a price for the follower, let me know what it is and we'll go ahead with the deal and I'll give it a try. I assume you will let me return it if it doesn't work out and I'll pay all the shipping. It doesn't look like the rifle is going to sell at the consignment store so I'll bring it home next time I'm there. Thanks again for all the help. I'm going back to you photo again now and try to picture it in m y rifle and exactly how it may work.
Paul, you have seen this. This is the same follower I have in my rifle. The only modifications to the magazine is the removal of some metal off of the tabs. You can see in the first picture that the follower can assist in loading  and that the spent cartridge falls into the magazine via the back of the follower.


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 8:54am
Michael, questions: Since my rifle is a number 0ne mark 3 will this work in my gun? Also, do I need a different extractor, bolt head or ejector to make this work? Also, does this remain a single shot or can it be loaded with multiple rounds? Hopefully, we can get together so I can get another look at your rifle and I'll get mine back from Shooters World, doesn't look like its going to sell anyway. 

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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 9:14am
Your rifle was only ever intended to be a single loading, single shot rifle with no room for multiple rounds so yes, if the spring follower is fitted to your magazine correctly. If not, it is still a single shot rifle with the spent cases still falling into the magazine as before. The existing extractor claw you have is sufficient for removing the spent case. The No4 magazine fitted with a ten round 22LR magazine you referenced to was designed for an entirely different setup than that of the No1Mk111 rifle and could never be made to function properly in your rifle.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 11:25am
Looking at Goosic's magazine with the .22 follower fitted. I think it will work as a loading platform in the No1MkIII type magazine for the .22 rifle. It would certainly be an advantage when loading.
If shooting competitions, the lack of loading platform does make it slightly more complicated to shoot than the No8 Mk1 .22 for example; that has a solid loading platform as part of the barrel, and no magazine.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 12:04pm
Zed,
You're probably right, figure out how much you want for it and we'll go from there.
Thanks again.
Paul


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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by RichardSuhkoi RichardSuhkoi wrote:

RichardSuhkoi is the one who owns the item in question Paul and not Zed...


Posted By: RichardSuhkoi
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 7:18pm
mine has less spring convolutions. 



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: March 04 2021 at 8:54pm
The last section of the spring that points towards the rear of the magazine on your follower is missing/broken...


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 05 2021 at 7:40am
Goosic, thanks for your observation, I wouldn't have known the difference.  In any case, If I can purchase it at a cheap price from Richard, it may be worth experimenting with

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Enfield restorer and collector


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 07 2021 at 7:09pm
that is the correct loading platform for the trainers i think it might work fine - add a spacer in the bottom of the mag box to get that spring to work , your not compressing it ............


Posted By: Paul in Arizona
Date Posted: March 08 2021 at 6:53am
good idea, thanks

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Enfield restorer and collector



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