1910 SMLE Mk III.
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11955
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Topic: 1910 SMLE Mk III.
Posted By: fross
Subject: 1910 SMLE Mk III.
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 1:16am
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he!!o buddies
Some weeks ago, I won this old warhorse on an auction. Incomplete (no bolt), rusted, extremely dirty, but in an intouched condition. Right out of the WW1, probably stocked into a french barn for more of 100 years. It's regimented to the King's Rifle Regiment.
Spider webs are original 
Correct #3 magazine.
December, 1911. 1st batallion of the King's Rifle Regiment, weapon #153.
The restoration begins 
Francois
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Replies:
Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 1:24am
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I found out a spare bolt and a NOS screws set.
Dismantling the rifle has been a hassle. Nearly all screws were stucked by rust. I had to drill most of them.
Wood parts are in very nice condition. No cracks, no chip, no worm.Just had to be deeply cleaned
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 1:31am
Well done. A fantastic piece of history!
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 1:42am
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Thank you Terrylee. It's for sure a fantastic witness of WW1.
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 1:58am
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Next step, rust elimination. Luckily, it was only a rust of surface and underneath, the metal and blueing are in an incredible nice shape.
Before :
After :
Before :
After :
The most rusty part was the nose cap :
After electrolysis :
After a diamond file and cold blueing job on ears :
It's now ready to go back onto the rifle 
The swivel is incorrect, it's a sling swivel. It will be replaced by a correct stacking swivel 
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 3:04am
Please do not over-restore. No file, no sandpaper, no re-bluing.
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 3:12am
terrylee wrote:
Please do not over-restore. No file, no sandpaper, no re-bluing.
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Was only on the outside faces of the nose cap ears . Really too much deep rust there. No sandpaper or file job elsewhere on the rifle. And above all, no blue Only steelwool and gun oil 
Francois
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 3:21am
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Under the rust, the original blue is amazingly beautiful Cleaning the inside of the receiver was very difficult and very long. Lots of rusted old hardened grease and dirt for 110 years. It was like concrete.
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:15am
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I hope that you did not damage the threads when drilling the screws out. They are all specific to Enfield and the taps and dies are unobtainable as far as I know. I would have attempted to release them with a mix of transmission fluid and acetone. 40% trans' and 60%acetone. However I fear it's too late for a light restoration. I would just have cleaned up the wood with linseed oil and turps. But obviously your rifle and your choice. How is the bore?
------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:22am
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I’m surprised how good it looks after removing the surface rust. Well done!
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:34am
nice job. Did you use a hydrolisis(?) method to remove the rust?
------------- Loose wimmen tightened here
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:37am
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No, the threads have been spared. All the NOS screws I found out in GB can be screwed on.
For the wood parts, I never use linseed oil. I hate it. Once clean, the parts have been feeded with balsamic wax cream. This cream doesn't not dark the wood, it restore the original color, add a satin finish and it's not greasy.
About the bore, the rifling is sharp but the grooves are slightly oxydised. I will try to clean this. Not very important as I do not shoot my rifles.
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:48am
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Now, this Mk III is reassembled.
I had to find a correct transversal nose cap screw as the NOS screw set purchased in England did contain a "large head" screw. On a 1910 Mk III, the correct screw is of the "small head" model.
I also found a 1917 web sling
Here's it :
Francois
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:55am
hoadie wrote:
nice job. Did you use a hydrolisis(?) method to remove the rust? |
I used electrolysis method. Very efficient
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 5:17am
very nice job. Do you have the pointy bit for it as well?
------------- Loose wimmen tightened here
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 7:53am
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it turned out very nice , i notice the volleys are intact - i could see from an early photo the rear was saveable but it wasnt till the later photos that i could see the condition of the front , very well done
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 8:16am
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The rear volley sight
And the P1907 bayonet.
Francois
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Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 12:22pm
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Very nice work! Beauty rifle!
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 12:48pm
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Thank you guys
Some additional accessories (sorry for the flash photos, I'll make some better ones in the daylight)
An Enfield made oiler, and some Mk I and Mk II clips
Clip in place. The .303 Cartridges are WW1 period.
Francois
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Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:43pm
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Tell me that pic is of new wood and not old original wood stripped and ruined.
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Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: March 30 2022 at 4:56pm
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Francois ; I looked at the rtest of the posts...I feel sad that you refinished the wood and the brass ID disc. As a long time collector rule of thumb is to NEVER alter finish of original wood. I use on such old rifles vaseline - rub on - rub off. Never strip a stock that has original patina. In collector circles this kills value of pieces bad. I've passed on once beautiful rifles some one has taken acetone , soap & water and or Abrasives that simple should never have been done . Yeah I am a purist . But pieces I find like that come to life in original colors and finishes. Takes more patience and alot more TLC , but that's part of the fun to restore with minimal invasive "actions" . I have saved alot of stuck screws by using soldering Irons placed on screws at length and some pops with a brass rod/punch and hammer then let sit and repeat several times .All the while trickling Kroil penetrating oil on screw. I've had some gew98 and 88 rifles as badly kept as your SMLE but when I got done they were beautiful in their unsanded wood. My 1911 SMLE is marked tot eh Kings Royal Rifle Corps same as yours ( now known as the royal green jackets) .
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 12:07am
I agree with you, if it's light patina, OK for saving it but there is a difference between patina and sh*t.  In this case, it was not a patina, it was 100 years of heavy dirt, earth, rust, spider webs, from storage in a barn or a henhouse. Absolutely no relation to a normal military use. I never sand my rifles stocks. I don't try to remove the dents. Only mild leaching and feeding with a wood wax. Like that, all markings are preserved.
For the screws, I tried to soak them with oil and kerozene for 4 months, but except for two of them, they continued to resist to any unscrewing. They were totally soldered by rust. The slot for the screwdriver didn't resist and it soon appeared that drilling was the only solution. Luckily, I've been able to preserve the threads and the new NOS screws could be screwed on without any trouble.
So, yes, I restored this SMLE, but I think that I didn't over-restored it. 
Francois
PS, I would be very happy to see some pics of your KRR SMLE 
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 3:52am
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It's certainly changed in appearance. Whether or not it's overdone is one of personal preference. Your rifle so your choice. But the job is well done. Code you explain your recipe and method for the rust removal please . I'd like to try that on some bicycles I'm restoring.
------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 4:25am
Zed wrote:
It's certainly changed in appearance. Whether or not it's overdone is one of personal preference. Your rifle so your choice. But the job is well done. Code you explain your recipe and method for the rust removal please . I'd like to try that on some bicycles I'm restoring. |
Plus facile en français  Il n'y avait que de la fleur de rouille sur le métal, hormis l'embouchoir. Pour l'éliminer, j'ai d'abord nettoyé les pièces à l'acétone, puis juste passé de la laine d'acier et de l'huile (pour armes et surtout de coude) Par endroits, un petit coup de brosse douce Dremel m'a un peu aidé.
Le bleuissage d'origine était étonnement beau et préservé, même s'il reste par ci, par là, quelques tous petits cratères d'oxydation.
Au plaisir François
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 8:33am
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En Anglais, machine translation. There was only rust on the metal except for the mouthpiece.
To eliminate it, I first cleaned the parts with acetone, then just passed steel wool and oil (for weapons and especially elbow)
In places, a little soft Dremel brush stroke helped me a little.
The original bluing was surprisingly beautiful and preserved, even if there are still a few very small oxidation craters here and there.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 8:44am
Shamu wrote:
En Anglais, machine translation. There was only rust on the metal except for the mouthpiece.
To eliminate it, I first cleaned the parts with acetone, then just passed steel wool and oil (for weapons and especially elbow)
In places, a little soft Dremel brush stroke helped me a little.
The original bluing was surprisingly beautiful and preserved, even if there are still a few very small oxidation craters here and there.
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Great, nice translation... 
Do you also use the expression "elbow oil" in english? 
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 9:04am
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i for one have a different opinion , in its original state it was for from a museum quality collectible , i like what has been done to save this one , the restoration was careful to save all of the original aspects - only removing the rust that would destroy it eventually , that minor touchup of the bayo boss sight protector ears was better than any replacement and i excuse it ,
im one that seldom touched the items i collected/accumulated as well , only wiping down and very modest cleaning , like others here i do not like to see the sanded and steamed stocks , im not inclined to strip and reblue it never looks original , the only time i like to see these things are with items that have been sported beyond salvage , that said - having seen the miracles worked by those that know how to do it ive changed my thinking enough to closely look at what is done and the presentation before/after , this one ill accept and honor with respect ,
i am on record as liking this one a lot , enough that i wish i was in a position to make him an offer for it --it would be a perfect mate for my 1910 hookie , its a proper restoration
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 11:47am
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Francois, did you use the electrolysis as well for removing rust? That is the method and recipe that interests me in particular. I've read about this process some time ago and tried once without success; probaly becaus of incorrect ingredients or voltage/power supply.
My oldest rifle is this 1918 SMLE in .22 it's all original wood and matching numbers. All it's had is a clean and light application of linseed oil for the wood and gun oil for the metal. It get's a lot of use; it's so much fun to shoot.
------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 12:29pm
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I agree with A Square on this too. The rust had to be removed and arrested, otherwise there would be nothing left of the metal given enough time…
The cool thing about this rifle is that it appears it had not gone thru any Arsenal repairs or rebuilds. It may well be an “as issued” rifle. A shame the bolt was lost. I for one like how it now looks, the stock cleaned and waxed and the brass polished to make it look like it would have looked if it was maintained properly.
But, I’m not a collector, I’m a shooter who really likes old military rifles (particularly the LE) and uses them in vintage rifle matches. I did do metal refinishing to a No. 4, but only because it came to me with the finish already sanded off. The look of bare metal full of scratches from 120 grit sand paper did not appeal to me…so I finished the job, sanding with 400 grit paper to remove the scratches and remaining finish and blued with Birchwood Casey Perma Blue.
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Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 2:43pm
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The metal...I can agree needed aggressive attention...been there myself. The wood...I never would have ever chemically or sanded such. If you take your time and use heated vaseline , tooth brushes and lots of clean cloth/rags you can and will remove the crap from the wood and retain the original finish/aged patina . I have done dozens and dozens of neglected military rifles like this. To me it's like finding an antique car with an original paint job that can be saved with some tlc instead of scrubbing it raw and repainting. Once you remove the original finish and aged patina...it's gone forever.
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 3:14pm
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"Do you also use the expression "elbow oil" in English?" Close to it. "Elbow Grease" (graisse)
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: March 31 2022 at 5:36pm
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Myself I am a huge Lee Enfield fan, but far from a collector. I have a couple of MkIII's that have aftermarket stocks and love taking them to the range! I totally appreciate purists, and feel anybody willing to own Mk3's, No4's, even Sporters keep the legend alive!
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Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 11:21am
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Agree totally. I have friends that are way too purist. They would not shoot any of their "rare" or minty condition pieces. Me on the other hand...reload and shoot. My 1911 enfield SMLE is one superb shooters with 174 gn bullets and good IMR powders. If I can not shoot it I personally find owning such a thing problematic. Many years ago when I was into WW2 era german arms I shot my G41 duv rifles often...was a great shooter. I also shot my mauser G41M and it was a mechanical nightmare and not so good of a shooter. Got rid of the G41M... as some felt it so rare they would put stupid money into it and did. Had a couple G/K43's . And to the last one they were universally inferior shooters and cost a fortune in parts to run. Had a gorgeous duv44 that the receiver cracked with a load ping while shooting it. Gave it away to a buddy whom collected those turkeys and he broke it up for parts and pitched the receiver in the scrap bin. Years ago I had a good buddy find a flat mint standard modell mauser with mismatch bolt. I asked for first dibs on it if he decided to sell. I was offered it eventually for $300 I jumped at the offer. And when he handed it to me at the show...I walked away from it. For some reason he chemically "cleaned" the stock.... took all that original beautiful red/orange mauser finish away..... it was dead to me for any kind of money. He knew he fugged up - but I do have standards and a once gorgeous piece was no more.
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 12:33pm
britrifles wrote:
The cool thing about this rifle is that it appears it had not gone thru any Arsenal repairs or rebuilds. It may well be an “as issued” rifle. A shame the bolt was lost. I for one like how it now looks, the stock cleaned and waxed and the brass polished to make it look like it would have looked if it was maintained properly.
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It's the case. This rifle has been losted during WW1 somewhere in France and probably the tommy got rid of the bolt before throwing the rifle into a ditch. So, no rebuild and of course, no parasite post WW1 marking. This rifle has never seen the Weedon arsenal. It's a SMLE and not a N°1. 
François
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 12:55pm
Zed wrote:
Francois, did you use the electrolysis as well for removing rust? That is the method and recipe that interests me in particular. I've read about this process some time ago and tried once without success; probaly becaus of incorrect ingredients or voltage/power supply. |
Oui, je me suis débarrassé de la rouille profonde avec l’électrolyse. C’est très simple : Un récipient en verre, un chargeur de batterie 12V, de l’eau du robinet avec une pincée de bicarbonate de soude. Tu immerges la pièce rouillée dans l’eau. Le connecteur (-) du chargeur de batterie fixé sur la pièce, le connecteur (+) fixé sur un gros fil métallique qui est également immergé dans l’eau. Bien sur, ce fil métallique ne doit pas toucher la pièce. Tu branches le chargeur de batterie et presque immédiatement, quelques bulles apparaîtront sur la pièce rouillée. Ça finira par former une mousse blanchâtre et couleur rouille en surface. Quelques heures plus tard, la pièce est complètement débarrassée de la rouille Séchage, huilage, c'est fini
Yes, I got rid of the deep rust with electrolysis. It's very simple : A glass pan, a 12V battery charger, tap water with a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. You immerge the rusted piece into the water. The (-) connector of the battery charger clamped on the piece, The (+) connector clamped on a metallic wire which is also immerged into the water. Of course, this wire must not touch the piece. You plug the battery charger and nearly immediately, some bubbles will appear on the rusted piece. It will form a whitish, rust-colored moss on the surface of the water. A couple of hours later, The piece is completely rid of the rust Drying, oiling, it's over.
François
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 1:03pm
Shamu wrote:
"Do you also use the expression "elbow oil" in English?" Close to it. "Elbow Grease" (graisse)
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Thanks Shamu 
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Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 3:11pm
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Beautifully restored sir. The furniture looks extremely beautiful...
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Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: April 01 2022 at 4:15pm
fross wrote:
Zed wrote:
Francois, did you use the electrolysis as well for removing rust? That is the method and recipe that interests me in particular. I've read about this process some time ago and tried once without success; probaly becaus of incorrect ingredients or voltage/power supply. |
Oui, je me suis débarrassé de la rouille profonde avec l’électrolyse. C’est très simple : Un récipient en verre, un chargeur de batterie 12V, de l’eau du robinet avec une pincée de bicarbonate de soude. Tu immerges la pièce rouillée dans l’eau. Le connecteur (-) du chargeur de batterie fixé sur la pièce, le connecteur (+) fixé sur un gros fil métallique qui est également immergé dans l’eau. Bien sur, ce fil métallique ne doit pas toucher la pièce. Tu branches le chargeur de batterie et presque immédiatement, quelques bulles apparaîtront sur la pièce rouillée. Ça finira par former une mousse blanchâtre et couleur rouille en surface. Quelques heures plus tard, la pièce est complètement débarrassée de la rouille Séchage, huilage, c'est fini
Yes, I got rid of the deep rust with electrolysis. It's very simple : A glass pan, a 12V battery charger, tap water with a pinch of sodium bicarbonate. You immerge the rusted piece into the water. The (-) connector of the battery charger clamped on the piece, The (+) connector clamped on a metallic wire which is also immerged into the water. Of course, this wire must not touch the piece. You plug the battery charger and nearly immediately, some bubbles will appear on the rusted piece. It will form a whitish, rust-colored moss on the surface of the water. A couple of hours later, The piece is completely rid of the rust Drying, oiling, it's over.
François
I will have to try it.
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------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 12:01pm
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Merci Francois. I will try that method for rust removal.
------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 2:38pm
fross wrote:
Zed wrote:
Francois, did you use the electrolysis as well for removing rust? That is the method and recipe that interests me in particular. I've read about this process some time ago and tried once without success; probaly becaus of incorrect ingredients or voltage/power supply. |
The (-) connector of the battery charger clamped on the piece, The (+) connector clamped on a metallic wire which is also immerged into the water. Of course, this wire must not touch the piece.
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Will any type of metal work, or does it need to be copper?
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Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 3:15pm
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I'm Canadian, so when I hear French, all I can think of is Justin Trudeau... I think I'm scarred!
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 02 2022 at 3:26pm
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HT, they tried to teach me French in the Canadian Forces. Four years, an hour a day. Didn’t work…
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Posted By: fross
Date Posted: April 03 2022 at 12:06am
britrifles wrote:
fross wrote:
The (-) connector of the battery charger clamped on the piece, The (+) connector clamped on a metallic wire which is also immerged into the water. Of course, this wire must not touch the piece.
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Will any type of metal work, or does it need to be copper? |
Any metal will work, yes
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 03 2022 at 4:25pm
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really fun info in the continuing conversation , i keep coming back for more , love it when the tangents are interesting
HT i sympathize , but like us here some of your countrymen voted for him , also like you i hope they are wondering what the he!! they have done - if not to their friends and family - to themselves , is that really what they voted for ? if so maybe we dont need those neighbors anymore ,
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 03 2022 at 7:27pm
Trudope keeps winning because the people are dumbasses. He didn't get the popular vote - not even close! Of the people that DID vote, he only garnered something like 23%(If that).But the people either A: Don't vote, or B: vote for fringe parties like the Greens, PPC or NDP. None of those parties would ever have have a chance at forming a gov't - but they syphon-off enuf votes to split things out so the Lie-berals end up with the most seats. Real dumbass way of voting. Because of it - we end up with endless Lieberal domination.
------------- Loose wimmen tightened here
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Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: April 03 2022 at 7:55pm
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That is the death of freedom... a parliamentary system where 1/3 or less vote have mob rule by playing a game of percentages and deals with "other parties". . Divide and conquer ...and turdouche tells you ,you are an unpatriotic non french speaking slob and you must pay .
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Posted By: Olins
Date Posted: April 09 2022 at 5:04pm
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!
------------- On ward and up ward!
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