Print Page | Close Window

Project Long Branch

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: After Market Enfields
Forum Description: What have you done to that Enfield??
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12324
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 2:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Project Long Branch
Posted By: Goosic
Subject: Project Long Branch
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:04am
I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...



Replies:
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...

I know you 'know your stuff' but my concerns would be there is no support across the rear of the action - NO charger bridge and NO rear sight.

This will allow a lot of flex and will upset how the various components interact.

This from Peter Laidler ............................

You could always tell the high mileage rifles, apart from the shot-out barrels because the backsight axis pin retaining pin (longest name of a part on the rifle. The PIN, retaining, pin axis backsight) was always sheared where the bodies had expanded at the rear and sheared it. So, if at the moment of firing/and max pressure/load the body spreads at the rear, especially during a gun battle, I suppose it would upset the balance between the locking lugs, bolt and cartridge seating on the bolt face. 




Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 9:52am
I was wondering if that would come up!  Smile


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:05am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

I have been tinkering with the idea of constructing one last sporterized Enfield using the only reciever I have available and that being a 1942 made Long Branch. It was already cut up when I got it so I have been cleaning up the lines and fitting a PH A-29 scope base to it. I am using the scope mount from a Marlin 336A to complete that part of the project. The trigger is a fully adjustable model made by John Huber Concepts.  The barrel that will be mated to the reciever is a 5 groove BSA M47C variant...

I know you 'know your stuff' but my concerns would be there is no support across the rear of the action - NO charger bridge and NO rear sight.

This will allow a lot of flex and will upset how the various components interact.

This from Peter Laidler ............................

You could always tell the high mileage rifles, apart from the shot-out barrels because the backsight axis pin retaining pin (longest name of a part on the rifle. The PIN, retaining, pin axis backsight) was always sheared where the bodies had expanded at the rear and sheared it. So, if at the moment of firing/and max pressure/load the body spreads at the rear, especially during a gun battle, I suppose it would upset the balance between the locking lugs, bolt and cartridge seating on the bolt face. 


This setup is no different than that of the Custom or Supreme No4 rifles supplied by Parker Hale back in the 60's. I see no reason to fret over something that will never come to light Alan. 
To get to the point that Mr. Laidler is describing, the rifle would had to have been consistently used day in and day out for years. I made an exacting clone of a Supreme No4 based off of a Maltby action. I have currently put 255 rounds down range with it and to date, it is still putting everything into the X ring at 100 yards. My dad's Custom No4 that he purchased new in 1966 from the Rod and Gun Club in New Ulm is still capable of MOA groups and recently as three weeks ago, dropped a 8x8 Mule Deer according to my sister. My point here being that, if Parker Hale Ltd was able to hack off the charging bridge and rear sight axis pins of No4Mk1 action bodies, cut the barrels down to 22 inches, fit it with basically a cutdown forend, make their own custom side mounted scope assembly and then call it good, what's there to worry about. The No4Mk2 Maltby with a M47C stamped barrel... 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:20am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I was wondering if that would come up!  Smile
The No1Mk111/* action bodies are devoid of a rear sight altogether and have less metal enveloping the areas around the locking lugs and yet no one gives it a single thought about the reciever spreading. Parker Hale made a Custom No1 by simply removing the charging bridge and bolting a scope mount to it. Are the No1 action bodies inherently stronger than the No4 action bodies?


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:31am
Looking forward to watching this project! You do build beautiful Sporters!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:44am
Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…




Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 10:49am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…



That'd be a great project and I'd be very interested to see the results - hopefully you'll be retiring very soon !!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Looking forward to watching this project! You do build beautiful Sporters!
I'm using the stockset made for Herter's Sporting Goods. The reciever has been bedded to the forestock and the barrel will be fully floated...


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:07am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Yeah, I’m having a hard time believing this is a issue.  And I can’t imagine how that tiny axis retaining pin, which is only 0.05 inch diameter, would hold the top of the receiver together.  It’s doubtful that the engineers at Enfield designed it intentionally this way.  

I thought about making a full solid Finite Element Model of the No. 4 action and bolt, apply the 18.5 tsi pressure to the bolt face and see what the stresses and deflections are in the action body and bolt.  I was primarily thinking of doing this to see what the displacement of the bolt is relative to the back of the barrel (headspace). Maybe when I retire…


If you intend to do all that, consider making a Model of the No1 as well and compare the two...


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 11:15am
I'm curious.
How many reports are there of No1 rifles suffering from"Receiver Spreading?


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 12:46pm
I’m a aircraft structures engineer and have a fair understanding of how loads result in material strains/stresses and I have a hard time visualizing this.  The loads on the locking lugs must be normal to those surfaces on the receiver, which are perpendicular to the bore.  There is no direct spreading load.  I can’t see how that spreads out the action by any significant amount, and certainly not permanent.

Now, there are three dimensional deflections/strains to a uniaxial load, called “poisson’s effect” which is perpendicular to the applied load.  And since the locking lugs are forward of the rear of the action where backsight lugs are located and the load is compressive behind the locking lugs, the poisson’s effect would cause a increase in sectional dimensions at the backsight lugs.  Most common construction materials have a poisson’s ratio around .2 to .3, meaning the transverse elongation is approx .3 times the axial elongation (for steel).  But, I suspect the elongation in the action body from compression forces of firing a cartridge is pretty darn small…it is made of steel after all, not rubber.  Maybe it spreads by .002 to .003 inches (ish).  And what effect does that have?  It is certainly an elastic deformation, meaning it returns to its original dimensions when the load is removed. 

Anyone still with me?

More that anyone wanted to know…I’m sure. 



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:08pm
I was, for a brief moment in time, a certified bridge welder and have a solid background in mechanical engineering so, like yourself have a fair understanding of how the dynamics of stress and strain on certain substances are applied. 
I can see the potential of metal fatigue and failure to the right side of the reciever where the long locking lug contacts if a constant and repeated load is applied in an almost non-stop circumstance. I cannot see it spreading outwards however...



Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:33pm
Metal fatigue is indeed a physical material property, which only occurs in tensile loading.  And there are lots of places on the action and bolt where tension stresses occur.  

The bolt is probably more susceptible to fatigue from tension stresses at the very tight (nearly zero) transition radius where the short lug meets the bolt body due to bending of that lug.  That very tight radius causes a high localized stress concentration. That’s one of the areas I wants to model with a very fine mesh to capture the peak stress.  

Fatigue life is an exponential function of the localized stress level.  Double the stress and the life (number of load cycles to initiate a fatigue crack) goes down by several orders of magnitude.  This is one reason I don’t like pushing loads up to near max with this action, occasionally, with a limited number of rounds that’s fine, but not for long term use. 





Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 1:58pm
I'm surprised that that section of metal on BOTR's rifle didn't shear off with that little stunt of his.

All of my handloads are at the minimum to middle charge weights and according to all my reloading data, are well under the standardized 45,000 CUP rating. My Faux Supreme No4 had the reciever Magnafluxed and no microscopic hairline cracks or fractures in the metal were detected prior to assembly.
What Laidler describes to the best of his abilities would/could happen with or without the charging bridge and back sight assembly...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 2:42pm
I thought that lug did fracture after he shot 20 or 30 rounds of .300 Win Mag? Will have to watch that video again.  That was not a “manufacturing defect” in the bolt, that was classic metal fatigue; very rapid crack initiation and fatigue crack growth.  That stress level is way up on the top right of the Stress-Life curve.  

Yeah, stay away from near max loads.  Fine if your shoot a few rounds a year, but devastating if you shoot 1500+ rounds a year like I do.  That’s why I got a few No. 4 rifles, try and spread out the accumulation of fatigue damage and barrel erosion. 



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 2:54pm
The bolt lug did fractured . I was referring to the area on the reciever that the lug contacts.



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 3:42pm
The barrel arrived today. What I am about to show you folks here will make you sick however.  
When I found this barrel for sale, I knew the rifling would be near perfect which it is. It is what is attached to the barrel that is sickening.  The previous owner cut the reciever in half. The reciever still has the original scope pad attached and the barrel is stamped M/47C. The reciever has the H&H "S" stamp as well.
I had to purchase this barrel for the simple reason that it is a legitimate T rifle barrel and needs to be functional once more...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 4:05pm
The only valid reason I can think of is that receiver was worn out an unsafe.  But, if the barrel is perfect, why would the receiver be Unsafe?? Why else would someone do this!??


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 5:03pm
"Parting it out"
The receiver is the "Recordable part" so they destroy it to sell the barrel which is not.
Terrible shame.


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 5:23pm
What Shamu said.
The LB reciever I am using was almost cut in half for the same reasons. I paid the guy an extra 50 bucks to not destroy the reciever...


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 03 2022 at 7:33pm
I will not cut the barrel down to 22 inches as I had intended on doing. It tightened up to the reciever liked it belonged there from the start. It headspaced perfectly using a #1 bolthead as well. It is on the heavy side but pretty much similar to a fully stocked T rifle.  I'm a going to see how well it does at 200 - 300 yards using the 6-24×50 Vortex Viper scope shown. It is not complete yet but this is the final rendering of Project Long Branch...


Posted By: Moosm14
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 3:21am
Goosic - incredible job transforming trash to treasure!
Not to interrupt but was that in New Ulm MN
“My dad's Custom No4 that he purchased new in 1966 from the Rod and Gun Club in New Ulm”


-------------
There is room for all of gods creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes


Posted By: scottz63
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 3:27am
Very nice!

That cut M/47c receiver kind of makes me sick to my stomach a little bit. Lol!


-------------
14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 3:40am
I don’t get it.  Cut the receiver so you can make some money off a barrel?  Because you don’t want to sell someone a receiver?  Or you don’t want to send it out of state through a FFL license holder? Doesn’t seem like a good reason to destroy what is becoming a rare military collectible. 




Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 4:35am
You cannot sell a barreled action on eBay.  Alot of sellers, if they cannot easily remove the barrel from the action, will simply run the reciever under a chopsaw.  The extremely sad part with this one is nobody thought to apply a little heat to the action like I did. Gave it a good swift hit with a mallet and the barrel unscrewed without a hassle. The person that did this either didn't know what he actually had in his possession or simply didn't care and was looking to make a quick buck. I've witnessed No4Mk1 T barreled actions sell for over a $1000.00 on Gun Broker alone so No, it doesn't make any sense britrifles but there it is...


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 5:31am
 Geeze, it does seem sad to think ruthless peopl actually are willing to destroy history for a few bucks. I saw a stripped T action sell up here last year for $750
 But on a lighter note, Like classic GTO`s and Z28`s, there`s probably more T rifles on planet earth now than were ever originally made!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 9:48am
Don't even dream of looking on E-bay then!
Pages & pages of obviously torn down rifles stripped for parts!
Evil Smile Angry


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 10:33am
In the eBay search box type, Enfield Rifle Parts and enjoy the ride. If you want to get a tad nauseous type, Enfield Barrel...


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Moosm14 Moosm14 wrote:

Goosic - incredible job transforming trash to treasure!
Not to interrupt but was that in New Ulm MN
“My dad's Custom No4 that he purchased new in 1966 from the Rod and Gun Club in New Ulm”
Nue Ulm Germany where I was born. Army Brat... 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 10:55am
Project Long Branch is complete.  I did cut the barrel back to 22" which gives the bullet exactly two complete twists before exiting the rifle so no issues there. The rifling looks almost in mint condition with very prominent and sharp lands with a bore gauge reading of .3015".
I was going to head out of town Saturday and Sunday to test fire this rifle but forgot that I will be watching a Non Athletic Sport Centered Around Rednecks event from turn 4 for the next three days so I will have to wait until the following weekend...


Posted By: scottz63
Date Posted: November 04 2022 at 11:19am
That is very nice! The bore looks great as well.

-------------
14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net