New Lithgow owner need help identifying
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Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Info for New Enfield Owners
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URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12384
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Topic: New Lithgow owner need help identifying
Posted By: Newowner
Subject: New Lithgow owner need help identifying
Date Posted: November 26 2022 at 6:10pm
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I need some help with this one. I have been trying not to ask any questions and do a ton of research but I’m just simply confused. I’m guessing the scope is not standard issue and I’m curious about the cheek rest as well. Says 1941 mark III but then there’s a butt stock disk which is also confusing. All serial numbers match everywhere so that’s interesting. Can anyone tell me if I have something special or is it just a remake ? My grandfather passed away and left me his gun collection and this one has always caught my interest. Thanks for any help ! 
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Replies:
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 27 2022 at 10:02pm
| I thought someone here might know something. Anyone have a suggestion where I should try ? |
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: November 28 2022 at 7:28pm
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Very nice rifle, Australian made Lithgow made in 1941, factory refirbed in 1951, has a civilian scope mount by S & K, with a nice sporting scope. Probably one of your Grand dads favs. What exactly are you needing to know?
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Posted By: SGonger
Date Posted: November 28 2022 at 7:57pm
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Believe the brass disc is irrelevant (just for looks) on this rifle,the S mark on the bolt head is a spare component part stamp indicator,the underside of the rear sight ladder looks to be second time used with the C prefix S/N in use,the B prefix S/N being line out. A little concerned on the rear face of the bolt handle that it may be stamped with a (DP?) above to the left of the S/N.
Cheer’s.
------------- Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨 |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 28 2022 at 7:58pm
| Under the front sight it has a b and then a c with the date of 1939. Was curious what that was about. Also curious if the scope case is original? It has the markings of the serial number and ma/1951. Was this an original telescoping smle? Is the cheek rest original? Do you know what the crossing flags marking means? Has it been ruined by having a scope mounted? I’ll never sell it, as it was one of his favorite rifles and now mine but just curious if I should take the scope off to try to get it back to originality. Thanks !! |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 28 2022 at 8:26pm
| What would DP mean ? |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 28 2022 at 8:34pm
| I see what you’re saying about DP in the pictures. Looks more like a four in real life but could be a sideways P too. It’s really not too clear. |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 29 2022 at 2:26am
Military Terminology for "Drill Purpose" only, not to be fired. It is used when the rifle is worn beyond safe limits. The military would not use a DP bolt in a live firing rifle. As it is all 'numbers matching' I'd suggest that the whole rifle is DP. Are there any other DP markings on the rifle, commonly on top of the breech and / or barrel. As a DP rifle it should not be fired. The military who had the expertise and gauges needed determined that it was not safe to be fired. We do not know why it was declared DP and Very few, if anyone, today will have the equipment and knowledge to say "no, it's OK to use".
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Newowner wrote:Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 29 2022 at 5:39am
| It does not have a DP anywhere. That maybe a DP on the back of the bolt handle but it’s not clear at all. The D is clear but can’t make out what it has next to it. When looking at it with a naked eye it does not look like a P at all. It could be mispunched but you would think you would want that clear as day. |
Posted By: scottz63
Date Posted: November 29 2022 at 5:55am
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That is a good looking rifle. I believe someone's attempt to replicate a "sniper" version. I like it. The DP marking is a bit concerning though. Those 60's Weaver K-series scopes are very nice as well. I have one on my FN M1950 Mauser. They have a great classic look for old rifles. Accurate as well.
------------- 14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 29 2022 at 6:53am
| The D is clear but the second marking looks more like a four. I’m not sure though |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 29 2022 at 5:24pm
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It seems to be a "bitster" rifle assembled form unrelated parts bins? A Lithgow SMLE with a Drill Purpose (ONLY) bolt. The Weaver scope is post war & civilian. Just to be safe I'd heed the DP warning & have an experiences Enfield smith check it out. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 1:53am
If it is only the bolt that is DP then someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make every part on the rifle numbers-match the bolt. That is my concern.
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Posted By: SGonger
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 8:52am
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If it is only the bolt that is DP then someone has gone to a lot of trouble to make every part on the rifle numbers-match the bolt. That is my concern. [/QUOTE]
Ditto ^^^ It looks like unfortunately the (S&K) scope mounted base is covering the action knox form? the exact location where many & most action (MD & DP) stamp marks are located.So henceforth unfortunately at a bit of a loss to add anything further.
------------- Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨 |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 9:40am
| I’m going to keep it regardless because it was my grandfathers. But what I’m gathering is that it’s pretty much a junk rifle ? |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 10:21am
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I wouldn't go that far. A little suspicions maybe. It was a common thing to do after the war, take a cheapo ($15.oo or so) MilSurp & Modernize it to sporting rifle configuration. I wouldn't give up on it by any means, but I would have a skilled 'smith check it out if I intended to fire it. just to be sure. The leather cheek riser is home made & I'm guessing the scope cover is too. Do me a favour measure from the center of the butt plate to the tip of the barrel where it peeks out from inside the nose cap. It looks "short", but that may just be camera angle or a trick of the light. It should be 44.57 in (1,132 mm) +/- 2" (they came with diferent length stocks) ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 10:28am
| You thinking a "Tanker", Shamu? |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 10:28am
| I got 43 3/4. The butt stock also has an S on it which I imagine means short butt stock. |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 10:52am
    
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Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 10:53am
| I took the bolt out and added more pictures. |
Posted By: Newowner
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 11:12am
I also took off   the scope and mount and here are some markings underneath. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 30 2022 at 2:47pm
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I wasn't sure, it just looked a little "stubby" to me. Ok, its just camera angle & lighting. yes the "S" would lop an inch off that measurement. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |