Bayonet help for a Mk V
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Bayonets
Forum Description: General discussion about bayonets for the Enfield rifles
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12511
Printed Date: March 24 2023 at 11:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bayonet help for a Mk V
Posted By: Bezerker
Subject: Bayonet help for a Mk V
Date Posted: January 23 2023 at 8:54am
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Hi, I was recently gifted a 1923 Enfield Mk. V rifle from my father in law and would love to get a bayonet for it. There are a bunch of options on ebay. Any suggestions? Also need to know what pattern fits this rifle? Thanks for your help!  ------------- Bezerker |
Replies:
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: January 23 2023 at 11:19pm
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Provided your rifle still has its nose-cap and bayonet lug, any Pattern 1907 should fit. However, to better match the rifle, I'd be inclined to go for one of British manufacture produced towards the end of WW I, ideally an Enfield. |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 4:28am
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Thank you, The pattern 1907's seem very long though, almost like short swords. I'd prefer something shorter 12"-18". Any suggestions? ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 10:04am
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Are you looking to keep it "original"? If you are - then get the proper bayo.(Otherwise, why bother?) ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 10:09am
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1907 type is a sword bayonet; they are not too long. Looks great on the rifle! ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 10:13am
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Thanks.....is 1907 type the only pattern that fits the Mk V? ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 10:14am
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I'd like to keep it original but would prefer something shorter and more practical. ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 11:01am
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I fully agree with Hoadie. A Pat.1903 and one of the short Indian 07s should fit, but would likely be more expensive, most inappropriate and also undermine the credibility of an uncommon rifle.. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 24 2023 at 2:32pm
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Yes the '07 is the only "correct" one. A chopped Indian 07 will fit & be handier, but incorrect. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 25 2023 at 10:33am
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Thanks everyone for your input. I was able to find a nice patter 1907 that was chopped down for use during WWII. ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 25 2023 at 2:07pm
| Dittos all of the above , the only correct version and only one that will fit is a P1907 |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: January 25 2023 at 9:41pm
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I rather doubt that SMLE Mk V Rifles were ever issued or used with "chopped down" bayonets. Perhaps you should exchange your rifle for an Ishapore No.1 Mk III*, but be careful that you are not killed in the rush! |
Posted By: lance
Date Posted: January 26 2023 at 1:50am
Don't give up, Enfield made a short run of P1907 bayonets in 1922-1924. Very hard to find but were made at the same time as the SMLE Mk V |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 26 2023 at 4:59am
It's just a pattern 1907 that should fit my Mk V, it wasn't chopped specific for the Mk V. See pic  ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 26 2023 at 1:45pm
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I think you missed the point. No full length (17") bayonet was ever chopped for the MkV, thats rather the point, they all would have had the P'07 with the full length 17" blade. If you want both short(er) & "correct" maybe this? https://www.ima-usa.com/products/british-303-enfield-p1903-1st-model-smle-bayonet" rel="nofollow - https://www.ima-usa.com/products/british-303-enfield-p1903-1st-model-smle-bayonet
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 26 2023 at 9:43pm
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i think we have arrived at the truth ...you bought that didnt you ? thinking a mkV and a no5 should both have a specific bayonet , its why you need to read and ask here first , the no 5 has a specific bayonet , it only fits that rifle due to the muzzel fitting , but the mkV was a trials rifle in the evolution from the no1 rifles to the no4 , at that point in time the pattern 1907 was still the standard , its the only correct bayonet , all others that you might think and might fit will be incorrect , that said - do as you please , we dont mislead nor misstate here , ill add the P03 might fit but it was for an earlier rifle , and the indian shortened might fit but they were for a different rifle far later , neither would be correct , you can certainly have a historically incorrect pairing and claim it to be whatever you want but those of us that know will know
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 26 2023 at 9:50pm
shamu - no one would consider that correct but you are right the 1800s bayonet will fit the 1920s rifle ,
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A square 10 wrote:Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 27 2023 at 5:03am
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It is a p1907 just modified for use in WW2. The Mk V was a trial rifle but they were issued for use after Dunkirk when the British Army lost a tremendous amount of firearms. So in my opinion it is historically correct as it it part of the history of this particular bayonet due to the circumstances of the time. Thanks! ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: January 27 2023 at 11:08pm
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Ha! Ha! |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: January 28 2023 at 2:13am
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Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 28 2023 at 5:18am
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If I said anything inaccurate about the Mk V please enlighten me. ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2023 at 1:54pm
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Oh you didn't. The bayonet is the issue, not the rifle. That's fine. Most of the chopped bayonets were chopped in India, not the UK, so it would be "right" for an Indian rifle though. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 28 2023 at 9:42pm
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thanks shamu , i was about to say it differently , it is not correct , in other words - do whatever you want , we gave you the correct info , im starting to think this thread is a hoax intended to instigate a bit of trouble here and im not playing anymore ,
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Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 29 2023 at 5:49am
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The bayonet issued for use with the MkV trials rifle was a Pattern 07, no ifs ands or butts. If any were issued to troops to go to war with, they would have got a 1907 bayonet to play with. So if you really have a MKV trials rifle, then you really need a 1907 bayonet. A 1920`s made if you can find one. You should post some pics of your rifle for all of us to enjoy and drool over. ------------- shoot em if you got em |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 30 2023 at 6:08am
Understood and agree totally. I've never claimed otherwise. The P1907 bayonet is what I got. It may not be "correct" due to it being chopped but its still pretty cool and a part of history. Here are pics of my rifle. I understand the Mk V is a pretty rare rifle and I'm excited to have it. I believe the insignia marking on the butt is not original. Looks like someone put an reproduction one in. Not even sure what the correct one would be for the Mk V and I'm sure it's pretty hard to find one.     ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 30 2023 at 3:36pm
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Oh man what did they gouge the stock out with to do that! What a crying shame. If you believe its not original anyway, I'd be looking for a nicer one that "Willard" didn't chew on!  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: January 30 2023 at 3:50pm
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Yes they really butchered it. Other than that the rifle is excellent condition. ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: January 30 2023 at 11:33pm
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Here is another. Note no marking on the butt-disc. Being a trials rifle I suspect this to be the norm.   |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 12:13pm
| i also suspect that terry , by tye time these were issued under duress after dunkirk the marking discs were no longer the norm but a lot of buttstocks still had the hole |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 12:48pm
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Yes its a shame when the rest is so nice. Were the trials rifle a No1 butt stock, a No4 butt stock or something else? ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 12:49pm
| no 1 |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 12:54pm
I'd just get a replacement for the replacement!  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 1:28pm
The early production of No4 rifles used a No1 Butt. Later the butt socket internal shape was changed from the No1 to what we now know as the No4 Butt.
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 31 2023 at 9:16pm
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the mkV was a trials rifle based on the no1 , the no4 were a different breed even tho they were a development of that rifle , transition happened slowly but once it was decided the no4 was to be a new development it manifested itself as a new item , the early no4s - even if they employed a no1 butstock in its infinitesimal state had no similarities for those of us that study these rifles , ill not argue anything about that transformation - i was not there - but we all know the no1 and no4 rifles are different even tho they may seem similar , i never owned an original no4 of the first generation [always wanted one] but even tho they are different in some ways they lost most everything of the no1 in the transition , they were a NEW rifle generation in the enfield line , the no1 died at the mkV , and yes i did own one of those in near original condition - considering that these got slapped together when issued mine was as originally designed , as to the bayonets of that post - they were the P07 , long after the hookie but still the P07 when designed , there were few being made in those years so they would have been WWI vintage by design , the indians manifestations were oriented around their use of the rifles and we all know they adapted to the 762 cartridge at that same time - long after the trials and long after the mkV was even considered a new development , by then the no4 was the NEW rifle
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 3:02pm
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Pretty much what I assumed, but I figured the butt may have been a mod in some way as so much more was "No4 stuff on a No1 rifle in a way. I'd hate to advise him to get a wrong stock. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 3:20pm
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Thanks guys. So if I want to replace the butt on my Mk V I'd have to find a No 1 correct? I'm hesitant to do that as I would assume it would be difficult to match the wood coloring and the natural weathering throughout the rest of the rifle. ------------- Bezerker |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 6:22pm
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Yes it would be for a No1. Now you have to decide the length! Really! They came in (Rare) bantam super short, Short, Normal, & long. Marked "B", "S", (unmarked), & "L". Each was one inch longer than the one below it. You can tell what yous is by looking at the heel (top) rear of your existing one & finding the letter. nothing is normal. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 7:36pm
This is just my opinion and an observation at the same time. Leave the buttstock alone. Remove that marking disc and fill in the offending hole with a dark epoxy resin. You will still have an all original rifle and a story to tell about the buttstock in the coming years...
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 10:25pm
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If the rifle was mine, Id respect the fact that it originally had a butt-disc and replace the disc. Should none be available, they are easily made. Otherwise, just turn over the existing one, polish if necessary and countersink its screw hole from the other side. Concerning the surrounding damage, I'd fill it in with a heavy mixture of epoxy and walnut sawdust and smooth over when set. Will be a bit darker than the butt itself, but less obvious than than by filling in the whole area. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 01 2023 at 10:55pm
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im wqith terry on that one , altho mine was replaced by a vintage coin somewhere in its life , the disc was part of these rifles even if they were not marked at issue due to changes in practice , having it there makes it a bit more authentic to its origin , you can find a replacement out there , |
Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: February 02 2023 at 1:45am
| Shamu I wish i was back in the USA i have a bantam buttstock on one of the old lithgows as well as s and l buttstocks there is about an inch is size between each . |
Posted By: Bezerker
Date Posted: February 02 2023 at 7:41am
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Agreed, I think that is what I will do. Thank you all for your help. I think this thread has run it's course for me. I will post other questions I might have based on the appropriate topic. Thanks again! ------------- Bezerker |