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It is what it is...

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Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
Printed Date: November 30 2023 at 5:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 -

Topic: It is what it is...
Posted By: Goosic
Subject: It is what it is...
Date Posted: September 05 2023 at 3:54pm
Preface: I removed the PH5C and put it safely away with the original MkII ladder sight. 
The cheek riser is permanently attached to the buttstock however. 

I reinstalled the S&K scope mount and added Weaver Grand Slam steel rings with integrated square recoil lugs. The scope is a BSA Platinum 24x44 target scope with 1/8" clicks.
I am going to shoot this rifle as often as possible and as accurately as possible so the scope is a necessity. My bullet of choice is Hornady's 174grn FMJ-BT. 
I should be good for at least 9800 rounds through it before the accuracy starts to diminish since I have only put 200 rounds down range with it so far. Wink...

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 9:34am
Thanks for posting this Goosic, this gives me the idea of installing my Leupold 6.5-20x50 Vari X III Target scope on the DCRA 7.62 and shoot it off the bench at long range, just to quantify my errors in hold and aim (which I'm curious about).   I haven't used that scope on a No. 4 in over 20 years and never on the 7.62.  Maybe get this rifle and ammo to shoot sub-MOA at 1000x (might be just wishful thinking on my part).

I'm not sure if that Leupold has enough elevation adjustment to get to 1000 yards (I think it's a 1 inch tube), but I have a set of rings that incorporate a +20 MOA offset, so should be no problem.

Aughh, dang, more to do!!

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 10:05am
Shooting my 7.62mm No4Mk1* with a barrel that is just now broken-in with 525 rounds through it and my best grouping to date was done @ 200 yards. Ten rounds just inside 1.970".
That was sitting at a bench with the forend resting in a tripod.
The round used was a duplicated M852 Match round.
42.0grns of IMR4895,  Federal Magnum Primers, LC LR brass, Sierra 168grn HPBT,  C.O.L. of 2.830"

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 06 2023 at 10:42am
I'll have to pick an overcast day to do this; otherwise the mirage at 1000 yards will make accurate aim very difficult.   Also, a scope won't help me dealing with the wind, so a calm day is much preferred (although I've yet to experience a "calm" day at this range).  

I've had some near MOA 10 shot groups with this rifle shooting prone at 200 yds with PH 5C (168 SMK, 40 gr Varget); so I'm expecting MOA or better with a scope off the bench.  I'll be shooting my long range load (Lapua Case, BR-2 primer, 43.5 gr Varget and 168 TMK seated to 2.95 in OAL which will get me a tad over 1200 fps at 1000 yds, sufficient to work the electronic targets).   

This exercise will tell me what the rifle and ammo is capable of doing, so when I shoot prone with aperture sights, I'll know how much error I'm introducing.  I expect I'm typically adding 1/2 to 1 MOA to the 10 shot group size shooting prone unsupported with aperture sights.        

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 12:35pm
Can’t believe I’m doing this, but here goes….

I dug out my Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x40 EFR Target Scope I bought in 1998 and mounted to my Fulton No. 4 Mk 1/3 for initial .303 load development work.  I removed it the next year and it sat in the box ever since.  It has a tiny diamond shape aiming point at the junction of the very fine horizontal and vertical cross hairs.  Parallax focus correction, 1/4 MOA click adjustments. 

Also found my B-Square Mount and Burris off-set rings.  The offset rings provides about 20 MOA of scope elevation offset above the bore axis at optical center.  I’ll need this to reach out to 1000 yds, which requires 37 MOA of elevation correction with my long range load and that will also give me more usable windage correction with the scope reticle closer to optical center rather near the extreme of the elevation range. 

Now installed on my UF 56 Mk 2 DCRA Conversion.  Of course, no modifications made to the rifle and it will be returned to SR(b) configuration after I do the accuracy tests at 800 and 1000 yds. 

Just doesn’t look nearly as classy as a “T”.  But, I’m just telling myself this is for the purpose of evaluating the rifle and load performance, not the shooters performance as I will be shooting it off the bench fully supported. 

Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 12:38pm
Welcome to "The Dark Side", Young Padwan!

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 12:42pm
Dead Wink

Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 7:18pm
nice looking setup , 

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 7:20pm
If you are referring to my rifle then thank you kindly...

Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: September 07 2023 at 7:24pm
you are welcome - i like both , 

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 08 2023 at 1:40pm
Went to the range today to shoot the scoped DCRA Conversion off the bench.  I was not impressed.  I see no improvement over shooting prone in sling with irons.  This is surprising, as I don’t believe my hold in prone position and aim with aperture sights could be as good as shooting off a bench with a 20x scope, but those are the results.  Must be some other explanation. 

My typical prone in sling slow fire groups with PH 5C aperture sights is 1.5 to 2 MOA for 10 shots.  I was expecting 1 MOA groups off the bench with 20X scope.  My average of four 10 shot groups off the bench with scope was was right at 2 MOA (at 200 yds).  

Typical group at 200 yds.  8 of 10 shots was good, about 1 MOA, but always the flier.  Note the X ring is 1.5 MOA. 

I thought perhaps the scope base was loose, but I detect no movement at all.  

So, scope is coming off, and PH 5C is going back on.  

So that’s my brief flirt with shooting a scoped No. 4 off the bench.  I’ll go back doing what I know how to do…

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 08 2023 at 3:56pm
I will try my scoped No4Mk1 Maltby next weekend. 
I did do a comparison test between my 7.62 converted No4 and my Custom No4 still chambered for. 303 British and was not too surprised to see that the .303 was inherently more accurate than the 7.62mm throughout the testing. I do not know why, I just know what I witnessed. 
Now, if I use my Remlin Model X7VH 308Win Tactical against the 7.62mm or the .303 Enfield, the Remlin will beat both rifles hands down. I already know what Frenchie is capable of doing  through the original sights. I need to know what she is capable of with magnification. If there is no noticable difference then I will remove the scope and reinstall the PH5C I have...

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 08 2023 at 6:17pm
By far, my AR-15 Service Rifle is the most accurate rifle I own. It’s set up for CMP “High Power” Service Rifle matches, Hi-Lux 1-4x32 XTC Scope.  Only a 4x max scope, but it shoots MOA prone in the sling.  Anything over 1 MOA is because of me. 

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 09 2023 at 3:23am
There might be an explanation.  On the way to the range yesterday, I realized I had not wiped the Hoppes 9 out of the bore and chamber.  I leave my rifles with Hoppes in the bore and store the rifle muzzle down.  Most of the solvent will slowly evaporate and drain out, but there is some oil left behind. It’s the chamber I was more concerned with, so I tried rolling up a piece of paper towel and pushed it into the chamber, don’t think it did much.  I don’t know if this had an effect or not…

Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: September 09 2023 at 3:28am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

By far, my AR-15 Service Rifle is the most accurate rifle I own. It’s set up for CMP “High Power” Servo e Rifle matches, Hi-Lux 1-4x32 Scope.  Only a 4x max scope, but it shoots MOA prone in the sling.  Anything over 1 MOA is because of me. 

A lot of people give a short shrift to the AR platform and turn up their nose at "plastic rifles".  Fortunately, I'm not one of them.  One of the most accurate rifles I own is an Anderson Arms AM10 which is almost completely factory stock save a Geiselle Super Semi-Auto Enhanced  trigger and a muzzle brake.  I put an inexpensive yet excellent Nikon P-308 scope on it and it shoots 1 MOA all day everyday with a handload I worked up for it.  I use a Lead Sled to shoot from when working up handloads since I want to take as much of 'me' out of the equation as possible.  Just as you stated, anything over 1 MOA is because of me.  

Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 09 2023 at 3:45am
Yes, very easy to build yourself an accurate AR.  My AR Service Rifle upper has a float tube so the A1 handguards do not attach to the barrel and sling does not pull on the barrel.  Barrel free floats except for the gas tube of course.  I’ve also got a Geissele fully adjustable trigger and a low rise Geissele scope mount.  Very comfortable rifle to shoot. 

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 09 2023 at 7:47am
The rifle on top is the Savage No4Mk1* that has the L8 barrel that was still in its wax wrap when I purchased it. The barrel that is.
The bottom rifle is a Maltby No4Mk1/2 with a M47C barrel  on it with an unknown round count through it. 
Both rifles have been setup virtually identical as far as bedding is concerned.  The 7.62mm Enfield uses a 6-24×44 BSA optic whereas the .303 Enfield uses a 4-12×40 Tasco optic. The 7.62 Enfield has the sighting system made to mimic the No4Mk1 T rifles and can be removed if needed to access the flip up iron sight with no loss in a zero when reinstalled. The .303 Enfield has  the "Scope Only" option. Both rifles would make for excellent hunting rifles. They can be made to shoot 1.0 MOA but typically hold a 1.75 MOA on average with the .303 edging out the 7.62. My concern however rests solidly in knowing how accurate my fully furnished and unmodified,  "except for the currently mounted scope" No4Mk1 is, compared to the rifles mentioned above. Currently, I have achieved a very respectful 2.0 MOA on average using the original MkII ladder sight so, it is with shear curiosity and necessity to see if I can shrink that MOA using an old school target scope...

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