1939 Original Lee Enfield No.32 Mk III/MK 3 Sniper
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Accessories
Forum Description: Slings, Bandoleers and any other Accessories for the Enfields
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13421
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 6:30pm
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Topic: 1939 Original Lee Enfield No.32 Mk III/MK 3 Sniper
Posted By: kdweste
Subject: 1939 Original Lee Enfield No.32 Mk III/MK 3 Sniper
Date Posted: July 07 2024 at 11:44am
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Title of the Sale: 1939 Original Lee Enfield No.32 Mk III/MK 3 Sniper Scope he!!o, I just signed up, hope everyone is doing well.
I recently acquired a scope for my Savage No.4 Mk1 after a search that lasted nearly 15 years. What initially drew my attention was the date, 1939. However, I was under the impression that the No.32 scope was introduced in 1942. Regardless, I am thrilled to finally own it and am eager to learn more about its history. If anyone can help me clear things up, it would be much appreciated. The photos I included are screenshots from the sale. Here are some of the identification numbers associated with the scope:
Additionally, the scope comes with a case labeled "L1A1," which I believe is not the original case.I'm getting a lot of mix information.
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Replies:
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: July 07 2024 at 7:25pm
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I would think the case belongs with the scope, L1a1 rifles are post WW2, as evident with the Nato stock number 1240-99-903-203. Now you need to find rifle No AN2129
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 4:03am
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1939 seems early for a No. 32 scope. Scope L1A1 was a conversion of the No. 32 for use on the L42A1 rifle, a conversion of the No. 4 Mk I (T) to caliber 7.62. The range drum is calibrated for the 7.62 NATO ball cartridge fired from the L42 27.6 inch barrel to 1000 meters. Your scope appears to be a L1A1 per the markings on the tube. For reference, my AK&S No. 32 Mk 3 scope dated 1945 is SN 17404. Also, Rifle SN AN 2129 would be a 1943 BSA Shirley No. 4 Mk I, before changing over to the five digit serial number format with the first number being a "3" for BSA. |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 7:02am
 Does this help?
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 7:56am
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The scope bracket body and two caps are stamped with matching numbers so they don't get inadvertently interchanged or turned around after removing them. There should be a different number on the other cap, usually in sequence (176/177 or 177/178). The cap screws should be staked in place, usually with a small punch marking. Mine has three of them, indicating that the scope had been removed from the bracket twice.
Where does it show the scope was made in 1939? I don't think these were designed until 1940, but I may be wrong on that. |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 7:56am
| I just want to make sure; this scope is not compatible with an original 1943 Savage/Enfield .303? If is not, I can still cancel the order. |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 8:45am
| My understanding is that No.32 came out in 1942. |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 9:12am
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Only Mk III scopes were converted into L1A1s for the L42A1 Sniper Rifle and the Mk III was only approved in October,1944. |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 10:25am
Since the scope has been converted for the L42 7.62mm sniper rifle (it is a No. 32 Mk 3 scope converted to a L1A1 Scope), strictly speaking the answer is no. Range index marks will not regulate to the flatter 7.62 bullet trajectory. However, it could still "work" if your lucky in how it aligns to the bore of the rifle when installed. The Savage T's did not have scopes fitted, and therefore, the pads were not hand fitted so the bore and scope center would "culminate" (properly align such that the full elevation and windage adjustments can be made and the bullet impact tracks vertically thru the elevation range of adjustment with no lateral change in impact). You might get lucky, and you will be able to "zero" the rifle within the range of adjustment of the windage and elevation drums (which are 1 MOA click adjustable). But, it's also possible it will not zero in windage, elevation or both axis even with the drums turned to the limit of travel. This has nothing to do with it being a L1A1 scope, it's just the chance you take when installing either a No. 32 or L1A1 scope that was not fitted to this particular rifle (that's why the scope has the rifle serial number identified on it, because it was fitted to that rifle). |
kdweste wrote:Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 11:51am
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Is your rifle a "T"? Does it have the mounting pads in the left side wall of the receiver? These scopes& mounts don't just bolt on to a no4 They attach to a pair of pads permanently attached to "T" modified rifles only. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 11:54am
 Does this help by looking at the numbers?
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Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 12:46pm
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Shamu has asked a very good question! I just assumed you have one of the rare Savage No. 4 Mk I*(T) rifles that had the two scope mount pads soldered and screwed to the left flat side of the action body, but never had a scope fitted. If not, you have a much larger task in front of you to mount the scope to the rifle and requires a competent gunsmith or armourer to properly install the pads and culminate the scope to the rifle. If that is the case, you might want to go with a complete replica mount and scope set up. Photo below from Skennertons book, The British Sniper:  |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 1:29pm
| No, just an everyday Savage, no pads or anything. |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 1:35pm
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 1:54pm
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Then it won't fit without finding, fitting & fixing them. This can be done, but not easily. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 2:13pm
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Really needs to be done with someone knowledgeable with how to fit the No. 32 scope to a No. 4 rifle. I don’t know of anyone who does this in the US. I would not attempt it myself. Keep in mind that this scope has very little adjustment, +/- 16 MOA windage and not much to play with to get elevation right either.
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Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 08 2024 at 5:16pm
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Is there a way to tell the difference between an original and an altered by the numbers on the drums?  |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 1:11am
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In comparing my original No 32 Mk III and a later L1A1 Conversion the following can be noted. Firstly, the ranges are both indicated as being up to 10 ie 1000. However, the L1A1 is also stamped M for metres. Secondly, the L1A1 scope has had some of its original markings cancelled out with new ones added, including L1A1. |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 4:20am
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There will be differences in the number of clicks between the range index marks on the elevation drum. You might not be able to tell by looking at it, you would have to count clicks between each range index mark then compare with a No. 32 scope. The L1A1 would have fewer clicks between the range index marks, probably out past 200 yds to account for the flatter trajectory of the 147 grain 7.62 NATO bullet fired at a significantly higher muzzle velocity out of the L42 rifle, compared to the 174 grain .303 Mk 7 bullet out of a No. 4(T). But, it’s clearly a L1A1 scope, it is marked so on the tube and on the box. This is a minor issue. Your main issue would be how to install the pads and culminate the scope to the rifle. |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 7:27am
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Britrifles, You raise an interesting point which I have just tested. The number of clicks between 0 and 1000 yards on my No.32 Mk III is 59. On the L1A1 the equivalent in metres is 49. And this is over a longer distance. |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 8:18am
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Yup, the flatter trajectory of the 7.62 NATO boattail bullet, which I think was 147 grains, and longer barrel on the L42 gave considerably higher muzzle velocity than the .303. That had to reduce bullet drop considerably. Muzzle velocity of the .303 Mk 7 bullet was 2440 fps; and probably close to 2800 fps for the 7.62 out of the L42.
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 11:43am
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[edited] Yes a 147Gr BT bullet @ 2750 (quoted) Vs a 174 Gr FB one @ 2450. IIRC the difference is fairly minimal out to about 250 yds. Then it really starts to show up.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Mayhem
Date Posted: July 09 2024 at 5:10pm
I hate to nit-pick Shamu but it should be 147 BT versus 174 FB  ------------- .303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889 |
Posted By: kdweste
Date Posted: July 10 2024 at 8:08am
| Thank you everyone for the information. I learned a lot! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 10 2024 at 11:52am
Yah, finger trouble,sorry. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: July 10 2024 at 12:08pm
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The Mk 7 bullet is surprisingly slick. BC coefficient is not much different from the Sierra 174 grain MK. The nose filler (aluminum or other light materials) make it long for its length. Most of the trajectory difference in the 7.62 x 51 load with 147 grain BT as compared to the .303 Mk 7 load is a result of the significantly higher muzzle velocity. |
Posted By: Enfield trader
Date Posted: July 13 2024 at 11:02am
| I believe the No32 scope was produced in 1941 - it was initially designed for the Bren. I have a 1941 dated scope that I sold off many years back. |
Posted By: Enfield trader
Date Posted: July 13 2024 at 11:12am
| Where is the 1939 date marked on the scope. |