Assistance with identification
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14379
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 4:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Assistance with identification
Posted By: lordofwar
Subject: Assistance with identification
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 11:14am
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Good day all: My son picked up what I believe to be a Long Lee from South Africa. We have been able to figure out it was made by BSA. Aside from that, we would like to know more about it. Thanks in advance.         |
Replies:
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 1:45pm
| What I see looks nice but could you post a picture showing the entire rifle profile? It is a commercial rifle made by BSA but I am surprised by the Sparkbrook stamp on the butt. BSA took over Sparkbrook in 1906. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 4:48pm
| its a commercial rifle made by BSA , as bear said we need to see more of it to help anymore than that |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 5:04pm
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Very good photos by the way, that's always a big help for us to help you. ------------- Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually |
Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 5:09pm
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If it has a 30.2" barrel, it's a civilian Territorial Rifle otherwise known as a Charger Loading Lee Enfield. Does it have protective ears on the front sight? If it has a 25.2" barrel, it's either a cut down civilian C.L.L.E. for a club rifle or a civilian S.M.L.E.
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 24 2026 at 5:22pm
| yes i agree with the added photos i missed first time through - or were the added after request ? either way you have the ID |
Posted By: lordofwar
Date Posted: January 25 2026 at 10:37am
  
Barrel length is 30.2". Thanks for all the info! |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 25 2026 at 6:34pm
| very nice example , appears to be complete and in great shape for a CLE , i see the bayo boss is intact as well as rear volley & cutoff - how about the fron volley |
Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 26 2026 at 3:37am
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The civilian purchased rifles, especially those used as target rifles are usually in outstanding condition as is yours. They're hard to date since there is no year of manufacture as is stamped on service rifles but there are some clues as to roughly what year they were built. We can see it's a MkI* with no hole for the clearing rod in the nose cap which dates its manufacture after 1899 and with no Rigby Patent stamped on the nose cap it was built after his 1888 patent expired.....probably, because he had to sue BSA to get recognized and have the stamp placed on the rifles so a few may have been built very early on sans said stamp. Don't be concerned about the "For Cordite Only" stamp which BSA placed to cover their ass after reports of rifles used in Africa blowing up from the early smokeless powders being very temperature sensitive. Lastly, look for a CL stamp on the sight leaf and dial sight plate which tells you the rifle sights were re-graduated for MkVII ammunition. BSA continued to manufacture Territorial rifles for quite some time, I seem to remember reading somewhere that they were made into the 1950's and maybe someone with more info will jump in here.
I have a C.L.L.E. that was later rebarreled so somewhat amusingly it has the "For Cordite Only" stamp on the receiver ring with "Nitro Proved" on the barrel. Interestingly, it's serial number is '1".
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 26 2026 at 9:15am
| interestimmg info - i know very ;little of these commercial rifles , you have provided me with quite a lot thanks , |
Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 27 2026 at 4:34am
| You're very welcome A square. Commercial Lee Enfield target rifles is a niche area of collecting for me and so far I have found a civilian M.L.E., a C.L.L.E., and an S.M.L.E. They all had some sort of rear target sight attached and one had a very interesting and somewhat rare as I've been told Vickers, Son, and Maxim rear 'quadrant' style rear sight. on the barrel. |
Posted By: lordofwar
Date Posted: January 27 2026 at 9:59am
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OK, so there is a "CL" on the dial sight plate. Does this indicate anything regarding a year? .....and showing my ignorance here: what is MkVII ammunition? Thanks again for all the info! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 27 2026 at 10:13am
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[EDITED]  "MkVII" also sometimes marked Mk7, was the seventh generation of .303. The Mk 1 was a 215 Gr Black Powder round. The Mk 2 was a propellant change to smokeless Cordite. & so on. It was also the cartridge tom use the MkVII ball ammunition, a 174Gr pointed flat base projectile, The were both cordite powered (an erosive powder) and Berdan (non-reloadable) primers which were corrosive. If you use BRITISH manufactured MkVII ball you must clean for corrosive immediately after firing. Its not as daunting as it sounds, you just pour a lot of very hot water doen the bore using a funnel to ensure to splashing anywhere else. After that clean as you normally would.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 27 2026 at 6:02pm
| the CL relates to it being charger loading and the cartridge current at that time - see above |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 28 2026 at 3:57am
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Shamu, I think you have a typo! Should be 174 grain bullet. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2026 at 9:39am
Thanks, fixed it. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |