Boiling water!
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Category: Enfields
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Topic: Boiling water!
Posted By: unrealpara
Subject: Boiling water!
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 7:58pm
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hey everyone
just the other day i picked up 100rds of .303 military ammo dated between 1950-1968
one of my mates said that after shooting, it would be best to pour a litre of boiling hot water down the bore to remove the Cordite and then clean the bore like normal to prevent the bore from rusting up. is this true? and if so why hot water?
i have never heard of this cleaning method before?
 any suggestions would be a great help thanks! ------------- .303 lithgow No.4 Mk1* Imagine pure concentration and precision at 750 yards. That’s Me watching You! |
Replies:
Posted By: Lithgow
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 8:37pm
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Military ammo was primed with Mecuric primers. It was the salts from the primers which caused the rusting. If not properly cleaned after shooting corrosive ammo, your rifles bore will rust overnight.
The military used boiling water to neautralise the salts and this method still works. The reason they used boiling water was because it dried quickly.
I have seen people recommending windex but have not tried it myself.
I dont use boiling water but do use a solvent which my father makes.
I think black powder solvent would work ok as well.
Whatever you do clean your rifle after using corrosive ammo or it WILL rust.
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 9:05pm
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As everyone else has said, you need to remove the corrosive primer residue with a suitable method (pick one they all seem to work.)
HOWEVER!
Don't JUST use boiling water. At least oil the bore afterwards as it'll be bone dry when you're done with the windex or water.
Personally I just do a thorough cleaning with Hoppes the same day. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 10:03pm
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I use black powder solvents when I can as Lithgow mentioned. Thompson Center makes a milk looking cleaner that works well, plus it has additives to help inhibit the formation of rust. It does work very well because it is water based. Then afterwards I clean as any othe modern rifle using non corrosive ammo with petroleum based solvents I have never used glass cleaners, but I have no doubt that they would work since they are a water based cleaner. Just one needs to make sure the finish up with nitro solvents and oir the bore to ensure no rust will form. |
Posted By: Lost Kangaroo
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 11:52pm
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I use hot water (as hot as I can get it)....run it through a bit. Three solvent soaked patches....push back and forwards a few times for each patch. Let it sit for a minute or two. Tight bronze brush 15-20 times back and forwards. Couple of dry patches to catch all the broken free crud. Gunslick foaming bore cleaner for an hour or so. Patch out, clean as a whistle. Seems more involved than it really is. ------------- Get some |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 12:07am
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unrealpara , they are right boiling water removes the majority and nuetralizes the salts and dries fast , then clean as usual.. I have aproximatly over 3000 rounds of .303 mill-Surp and shoot pretty regular. and cleaning is a must even if its not corrosive. its a good habit to be in... ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 1:35am
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I use boiling water after shooting my Enfield musket.Then clean again with the swabs etc.(Note: Dont do it in the house...not unless your lookin fer an excuse for her to throw ya out!!It really stinks!)
Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 1:57am
The sulfur odor Hoadie given off from the cleaning of your Black powder musket could also be confused with your excessive flatulence. |
hoadie wrote:
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 6:12am
Don't use milsurp use the boiling water for TEA!!!! See us POMS do know how to make a decent brew!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Lithgow
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 6:44am
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Yeah sorry, I should have added that it still requires cleaning after the boiling water treatment.
I only use Milsurp ammo and have no dramas with rust. You just gotta clean it properly afterwards.
I clean all my guns after I have finished shooting.
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Posted By: Schmidlin
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 7:38am
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http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/corrosive/index.asp something like this? |
Posted By: John Coleman
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 10:43am
| The corrosive element is salt. Salt is dissolved in water. Hot or boiling water is good. Some dish washing detergent can't hurt and may help dissolve the salt. Most gun cleaners don't have enough water in them to dissolve the salt, even the ones that claim work for cleaning after corrosive ammunition. Powder solvents won't remove the salts. |
Posted By: unrealpara
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 4:57pm
thanks guys! thats heaps helpful!!! 
------------- .303 lithgow No.4 Mk1* Imagine pure concentration and precision at 750 yards. That’s Me watching You! |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 9:58pm
Now Tony how would I clean my rifle with a bag of Twinings? Well I guess I could use it has a pull thru?
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Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 15 2009 at 9:59pm
Thank you John for summing up all the above posts.
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Posted By: John Coleman
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 5:48am
| Salt does dissolve in water but it doesn't evaporate. It needs to be completely cleaned and flushed out. Salt doesn't dissolve in oil. I'm not sure "pouring" water down the barrel is required but use plenty of water to clean it and other parts. Hoppe's 9 is 10% water and cost about $12 a bottle. Water is cheap and 10 times better at dissolving salt. Compressed air is fast for drying if you have an air compressor. If not dry the parts and then clean with solvent after drying and then oil the firearm or use a cleaner / lubricant. |
Posted By: ducaninfrance
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 7:00am
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I also shoot Black Powder Pistol and after every 6 shots (1 cylinder) I pull thorough with windex type liquid which keeps the bore clean. When I get home I completely strip down the revolver and put the pieces in a bath of hot water and pure soap so that the salts can dissolve. To clean the barrel and the cylinder I use a nylon cleaning brush and put the muzzle in the hot water and then work the brush up and down about 10 times. This produces a lift pump effect and you will suck the hot water up the barrel and so clean all the crap out of it. Once done, pour boiling water from a kettle down the barrel. This will wash out the soap and salt residue and heat the metal so it dries faster. Same method for rifles and shotguns - works fine. Hot water is the BEST way to remove corrosive fouling ------------- Duncan. Peace is that brief, quiet moment in history.......... when everybody stands around reloading. |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 8:58am
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John Coleman the salt you are referring to is called potassium chloride. There are many chemicals that made up the primer mixture, however the corrosion culprit is potassium chloride. Potassium Chloride is formed when the chemical Potassium chlorate is oxidized during combustion. Upon firing, some of this dreaded byproduct is deposited in the bore in the form of potassium chloride. Being very similar to ordinary table salt, potassium chloride is extremely hygroscopic, which is to say it attracts and holds moisture. As we have already established potassium chloride is soluble in water, but not by most conventional bore solvents. For example Hoppes, Rem oil, and most other petroleum based solvents. Its removal requires very specific bore care techniques as our members so graciously posted above. Since most bore solvents were not effective in dissolving or removing this residue, some means of eliminating the potassium chlorate was needed. Eventually a priming compound was developed that omitted the potassium chlorate, using lead styphnate, “{Lead 2.4.6-trintroresorcinate, C 6 HN 3 O 8 Pb)”, this is still a common oxidizer in many of today’s primers. This mixture proved to give the stability and reliability demanded by the military and sporting shooters. This is simple, clean your firearm when done using it. If in doubt of what the primer composition is. Clean with hot soap and water. Then follow by petroleum based cleaning regiment normal for modern nitro cellulose based powders using non-corrosive primers. Ducan potassium chloride is the same product that causes corrosion in Black Powder firearms. |
Posted By: unrealpara
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 7:56pm
i was wondering, if soldiers during WW1/2 they would have gone days if not weeks without cleaning thier rifles "due to fighting", then their rifles would have rusted up real quick? i just dont see them having time to pour hot water down the rifles!!! 
------------- .303 lithgow No.4 Mk1* Imagine pure concentration and precision at 750 yards. That’s Me watching You! |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 8:22pm
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They'd have boiling water for making brews so they'd use that. The tea bags wouldn't hold up very well as pull throughs though. Unless they were YORKSHIRE TEA BAGS CM.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: unrealpara
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 8:33pm
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i dont think any tea bag would hold up as a pull through, i reakon i would have more luck if i used shoe lace tied to gum leaves ------------- .303 lithgow No.4 Mk1* Imagine pure concentration and precision at 750 yards. That’s Me watching You! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 11:49pm
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When I was "in" we used an oil that was water soluable for cleaning & lubrication.
To clean we diluted it 50/50 with water & to lube afterwards it was used as 100% oil.
I'm guessing the 50% water dissolved the salts.
It was sold commercially as "Young's .303", & I've seen it once in awhile here in the US. A while back there was a product called "STES" sold by "Dangerous Dave (the old western scrounger)", but I haven't seen it advertised in a while. IT was Youngs re-packaged.
BTW STES stood for "Slicker Than Eel Sweat"
It does make your cuppa taste funny if you use tea bags to apply it though!  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: John Coleman
Date Posted: March 17 2009 at 12:29am
I believe Ballistol emulsifies with water and some people mix it with water. I understand the desire to have oil to prevent rust. The problem I see with an emulsion of oil and water mix is the water will evaporate and salt will not. What is left is oil and salt. Salt dissolves in water and water is cheap. The salt needs to be flushed away. The only thing that can improve the effect of plain old water on salt is to raise the temperature, or add a surfactant to reduce the surface tension of the water and make it "wetter". |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 17 2009 at 1:38am
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the use of 'hot' or 'boiling water is a timesaver as hot water will evaporate fast and allows you to 'oil' it right after ,
a cold water bath is just nasty and leaves her wet and chilled , not a happy lady at all
oh , and use of a proper funnle never husts eather
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 17 2009 at 2:55am
I've heard that about ballistol as well, never tried it though, except in nail guns to clean the piston & chamber.
I guess I didn't explain the cleaning with Youngs properly.
Brushes & patches were used with the youngs/water mix till the alternated dry ones were clean. This (supposedly) indicated the bore was clean.
Then a fresh patch with undiluted oil was used as a prservative.
The idea was that the alternate wet/dry patches mopped the contaminants, including salts out of the bore before final lube & store.
I can't speak for the high tech aspects of bore cleaning, but mine didn't rust or corrode at all even after 5 years of this method in a British (soggy) climate. It can't have been too horrible, or something would have happened after 5 years.
I still use Hoppes to this day, wet/dry & wipe till clean. Then I let soak overnight & repeat wet/dry in the next day & final wipe with oil. There's no corrosion there either, so, again it must be working. The big difference with Hoppes is that the metal fouling is reduced as well. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: March 17 2009 at 4:43am
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Yeah we used the same mixture John. Never saw the lable on the can but I assume it was Youngs 303 we were just issued with a bottle full as and when we needed it.I have seen it on sale here in the UK. I use Hoppes as a finish cleaner and bore foam as a starter. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |