Re-Chambering
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Gunsmithing
Forum Description: Submit any how-to's or other gunsmithing suggestions here.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2959
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 7:59pm
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Topic: Re-Chambering
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Subject: Re-Chambering
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 12:49am
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Gentlemen, I am seriously considering rechambering my #4 Shooter in 7.62x54R and want to check and see if you all think that the receiver is strong enough to handle the mil-surp carts available on the market. Ciao, Mike Spivey Las Vegas NM |
Replies:
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 1:57am
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The base of the cartridge is larger than the 303 British, and it has a higher working pressure.
Force = Pressure X Area.
In other words, I wouldn't do it. You'll be putting a lot more stress on the action.
Look for headspace to increase. A rear-locking action will have some "spring, and will probably stretch when pushed too hard. Cheaper and better to get a Moisin Nagant rifle.
What you could is pull the ammo down for powder and bullets.
I have no idea what to measure for a charge of the powder in .303 British, but the bullets will work fine.
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 2:52am
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No chance the pressures would blow the action to bits in your face!! The bolt will fly back possibly embedding in your face, shrapnel flying around possibly injuring bystanders too. I have seen a rifle blow and I don't want to see or hear of it again! My lads Dragurnov Tigre is 762x54 and the amount of powder used to throw a 155 grain lapua bullet down range is 19% higher than the amount used in my remington using same size bullets and 18% higher than the 303 using 174 grain bullets. Both loads using same powder Vit 140 and same same primers. The remington has a substantially stronger action than the enfield but I still wouldn't stress it using the high pressures used by the 762x54R.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 5:12am
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Thanks Guys, Really was not sure about the cartridge pressures, esp the mil surp loads. Depending where I looked the 7.62x54r was either the same as the .303 Brit in pressures OR was about 10-15% more. I did notice that the pressures were less than 7.62 NATO which made me consider the rechamber since the Cart (7.62x56R) sits somewhere between .303 British and 7.62 NATO and some #4 Rifles were arsenal rebarreled to fire 7.62 NATO. |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 5:56am
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762 Nato pressures are around 50,000 psi 762x54 are 57,000psi, 303 are around 42000psi. Giving a minimum of 7000psi over pressure on 762 nato or a maximum of 15000psi overpressure on 303. Think thats a lot more than your information allowed for and way over any safety magin built into the enfield recievers. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:16am
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Tony, Thanks!! I think that the sites where the data is posted are confusing CUP and PSI in their tables or are converting them wrong. Looks like I will keep the original chambering!!  I have three Enfields Two #1s (a SMLE N01Mk3 (1918) and a NO1Mk3* (1943) and the No4Mk2. I was hoping to be able to shoot cheap surplus out of at least one of them again. Mike Spivey |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:50am
| Get some reloading equipment instead. After the current panic has subsided a little and components are available again (I hope) you can tailor ammo to do whatever you want (within safe limits). |
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 11:20am
| Smokey all ready do that, have been for the last 30 years. My whole idea was the inexpensiveness or the 7.62x54R round, like .303 Brit used to be!! Best laid plans of mice and men!! |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 6:21pm
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Dunno what you class as cheap. Russian Milsurp is around £25 sterling/100 here in the uk. Similar price to the 303 milsurp if and when you can get it. My lad was waffling on about getting a case of Russian stuff and stashing it until I pointed out he can only buy 500 at a time and 600 to keep at any 1 time on his ticket. So he planned on me having half on my ticket to level it out. Where we'd store a 900 round case of ammo is a mystery to me lol. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 9:51pm
Mike, As everyone above stated this is an unwise idea. I see you are heeding their warnings. If you are wanting to re-chamber your Enfield try necking it down to .25 or .22 calibers. Those smaller rounds produce significantly less working pressures thus making it safer. |
BM59_Fan wrote:Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 9:58pm
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Cheap for me is 440 rounds of 7.62x54R for $85.00 or if I buy 880 rounds $165.00. That would work out to £57 sterling/440 or £111 sterling/880. I have no restrictions on the amount of ammunition I can store. I probably have 5000 loaded rounds of 7.62NATO just for my 7.62 NATO chambered M1 Garand. Below is one source I have used before: http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/products_id/1789 - http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/products_id/1789 Ciao, Mike |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 03 2009 at 10:14pm
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You're lucky UK restrictions on weapons and ammo tend to be very tight. We are both lucky with our ammo allowance. The local constabulary know I'm not a nutcase and my 18 year old son and another shooter are under my supervision ( at the request of the police) until I'm satisfied they're safe to let loose on their own.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:04am
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Tony I must have over 30,000 rounds of ammo here on the farm... an assortment of every thing I have to shoot.... the majority of it would be in .22 cal Russian ammo , had 3 tins of that stuff still have 2 unopened. the rest would go from 7.62x54 russian ,.303 Enfield ,7.62x51 , 7.62x39 , 7mm Rem. Mag. , 8mm Mauser , 7.62x38 , 9x18 , 9x19 , .38 special , .30-.30 , 6.5x55 , .32 acp ,.45 L/C assorted shot gun shells.... I think thats all ......
And to top it off I also have an assortment in the shop case that I sell..... and also means I have to make another ammo order here shortly... ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:33am
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Cookie Monster,
I was just thinking about what to do if I ever wear out the barrel of my '55 Fazakerly.
Decided I would put on a barrel for the 30-40 Krag. I would have a regular 30cal bore, could use all my .303 brass, and the existing magazine etc. would work with no modifications. Might even try a polygon bore. The Japanese Type 99 is an excellent shooter with that type of rifling.
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:17pm
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You're so Lucky Rhino. Maximum 22 ammo I can have is 500 to purchase 600 to keep, same with all the other calibres we have 222, 243, 303, 308. 762x54. BUT now lad has his ticket we can double the amounts. Strange thing is we can buy shotgun ammo by the 1000 and nobody bothers. As we all know most bank robberies are usually sawn off shotguns or pistols nobody lugs a rifle around it's too obvious so why restrict rifle ammo? Crazy restrictions in a crazy world. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:56am
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Tony, I forgot a few other calibers... forgot about Boogies .243 Handy Rifle that He took His first Deer with...also forgot the 7.62x25 ammo also... just got in 1240 rounds of that to add to the 800 round case I have stored and the remnants of another 800 round can.
I got 3 CZ-52 pistoles one in 9mm (9x19) and the other 2 in 7.62x25 . One of the CZ-52 pistols are for My Son Boogie. I went half in on the $$$ for it so he would have another pistol to shoot other than His Neos U-22 Berreta in .22 cal ....
I dont know what I would do if I had restrictions on the amount of ammo I could keep on hand....
and your right about the robberies and bank hold ups... Shot gun is the prefered weapon.....from what I have seen.... Guess they go for impressions .......... ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 8:26am
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"Ammunition Stockpiles" are another target of demrats.
I remember seeing somewhere a proposed limit for individual cartridges per household of 100. Primers would be counted as a cartridge in the bill.
 I wouldn't mention what you might have on hand.
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 06 2009 at 4:32pm
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Thats why we reload Rhino. We can get primers, bullets and cases by the 1000 (when the shops have em in stock). Crazy thing is the only restrictions on powder is black powder. That has to be stored in metal containers. The usual brand names can be stored without metal containers. I know with the packages being plastic there's little chance of an explosion but rifle powder will burn if the house catches fire. Crazy thing is any kid can make black powder by the bucket load same with nitrates you can buy it from any garden center mix it with diesel and you have the standard explosive as used in quarries or by the IRA when they were acting up. Other crazy rule here in the uk is anybody can have a case primed without powder or head and it's not illegal but as soon as you put powder in and the head on it is.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 7:25am
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Well Tony if you look at the people that make the laws you will begine to understand how the come up with the ones they do.....they have no reason or ryme at all. they must of been the ones My History Teacher looked at and said "God Help us ! You people are going to run this country one day !!!" Guess He was right.
I bumped into Him a year ago at My Dentist office. and asked Him what He thought of the way our polititians were doing and He changed the subject with a grim look on His face..... ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 9:14pm
 How true Rhino! How very true!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 12:39am
| Looking at the British news websites, I sense some building dissatisfaction with the current crop of politicians and policy. Might there be some changes coming? |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 8:14pm
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I'm sure of it! Trouble is 1 of the parties involved is extremeist to say the least. BNP are standing for election in June for the Euro parliament. If they get in the fur will really fly. UKIP is another party who are determined to get the UK out of the EU. Current costs to the UK for membership is around 40 billion /day and it's bankrupting us. The EU is corrupt has been proven to be corrupt and couldn't give a toss about the immigrant situation. Basicaly they'll let the immigrants through dump em on us and let us carry the can. The general concensus is we have been badly let down by this and previous governments and it's time for a change. Just pray that the BNP don't get into power because it will be like Nazi Germany in the 30s and 40s. 1 idiot ramrodding the show backed by a bunch of thugs!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 10:57pm
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I took a quick look at the BNP website.
Here in the US, Conservatives are slandered as fascists, racists etc.
They actually favor individual freedom and a return to the original meaning of the US Constitution.
Conservatives also favor LEGAL immigration and accept people of all races. They also tend to be religious, decent and hard-working contributors to society.
The accusations thrown at conservatives better fit those who make the accusations.
I can't help wondering if the same is happening in England.
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 09 2009 at 11:55pm
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Nope the same thing is NOT happening in England! The BNP have long been associated with violence and race hatred. They originated from the National Front a bunch of Skinhead thugs who used the cross of St George as their emblem, used terror tactics against asians and blacks. Hence the hatred for the cross of St George OUR national flag!!!! A branch of the NF was Combat 18 similar to the thugs Adolf had backing him and their beliefs were similar too. Any dammned fool who says the Holocaust never happend worships the Nazi party and all they stood for is definately BNP material. Oh yessss they say we should all have guns (a ploy to get ligitimate owners to back them) they try to promote a respectable front since the bloodless coup which deposed the original chairman and installed the current lunatic. British people are usually very laid back and thats taken as a sign of weakness! Don't be fooled trouble will come but hopefully from a more moderate group not a bunch of Neo Nazi thugs with few brains who can barely string 2 words together and make a sentence. Best comparison to the BNP would be your KKK in America.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 2:07am
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Tony,
Thanks for clearing that up. Guess this part of the discussion should have migrated to OFF TOPIC.
Here's an author who pretty well documented what I mentioned earlier:
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/content.cgi?name=bio - http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/content.cgi?name=bio
If you do a search on "Ann Coulter" you'll also get a taste of what she describes, by her critics.
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 10 2009 at 5:17am
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How some female (correction split ass) who doesn't live here can have the brass nerve to comment on Brit politics and way of life is beyond me. Same old story folks think Britain is run by Washington and Washinton knows best. We have had enough of being taken for a ride and now the gloves will come off. The politicians are corrupt abuse their allowances live high off the hog and say anything to stay in parliament. Cromwell must be spinning in his grave, as must Winston Churchill. Yes this should be OFF Topic so if you want to ask any more questions feel frr to p[ost and ask on that forum. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 7:45am
| Getting back on topic, has anyone replaced the barrel on their Lee-Enfield with one chambered for 30-40 Krag? |
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 11 2009 at 8:07am
Along this line does anyone know where #1, #4, and #5 Barrel Drawings might be found and obtained? Specifically, machinist drawings that show the Barrel Proflies. Ciao, Mike Spivey |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 7:20am
| A lot of gunsmiths will turn a new barrel to the same profile as the old one. I do see the bayonet lugs for a #4 being a problem though. |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: May 12 2009 at 7:18pm
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The lugs can be machined whilst cutting the barrel. It needs a piece of steel same diameter as the lugs they can be milled out if you have a competent machinist doing the job.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 7:22am
| Has anyone had a .303 British chamber cut in a .30 cal barrel? |
Posted By: BM59_Fan
Date Posted: May 20 2009 at 12:26pm
| By .30 Cal do you mean a barrel for .308 dia projectiles? Or some other bore size? |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 7:20am
| I meant a barrel for .308 dia projectiles. |