$150 Lebel
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Topic: $150 Lebel
Posted By: SW28fan
Subject: $150 Lebel
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 2:29am
I went to a gunshow and this fellow had a $150 price tag
 A 1886/93 made in 1898.
I wanted something old and I do have that MAS 36 but the price is was got me  ------------- Have a Nice Day If already having a nice day please disregard |
Replies:
Posted By: No4Enfield
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 5:23am
| cool, i wish I had picked up some other old cheap arms years ago when I could havenow Ill never afford an Enfield or Webly revolver :-( |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: November 12 2011 at 6:22am
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I got a Lebel a few years ago. Used it for the better part of a year as my "utility" rifle, which made me well acquainted with it. I really got to like it. It's powerful, accurate and reliable. For ammunition, you need to work with the following constraints:
1) It shoots best with faster-burning propellants such as IMR3031. I tried H4350 and got ONE FOOT patterns at 25 yards (and that was kneeling)!
2) You need about an inch or so of the bullet extending out of the cartridge case. When the loading plate snaps up, the tip of the bullet will hit the upper reciever instead of flying out of the rifle.
3) You need flat point bullets because of the tubular magazine under the barrel.
4) Bullets need a pretty solid crimp to keep them from being pushed into the case.
5) Cast bullets need to be about 0.330 dia, the groove dia is usually around 0.3275.
When using the magazine, operate the bolt smartly (believe me, you won't hurt this rifle) to make the feed mechanism function properly. The rifle also works superbly as a single shot. I fired FMJBT loads that way target shooting, also 0.330 pistol bullets over about 12gr Unique.
Balle D drove a 0.3275 200gr solid bronze bullet at about 2200fps (used in WWI).
The Balle N ammo drove a 240gr FMJBT bullet at about 2400fps, so it's not a wimpy cartridge.
I bought some 200gr 8mm Norma Alasken bullets, flattened the exposed lead round nose with a nail chucked in a drill press, and loaded them to about 2200fps with Ramshot TAC. I would shoot 4 to six inch groups STANDING at 100 yards. Never did any benchrest work, but I expect it would group about 2-3 inches at 100 yards.
It's an historic rifle and a good shooter.
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Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: November 16 2011 at 12:04pm
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I have been scrubbing the bore and it is not that bad. It has not been converted for the "N" ammunition so the ammo options are limited. I was not looking for a shooter as much as an example of an early bolt gun and this rifle was a "game changer". ------------- Have a Nice Day If already having a nice day please disregard |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: November 17 2011 at 7:00am
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I bought brass from Grafs, dies from LEE. It'll work fine with 200gr round nose 8mm bullets and around 42 to 46 gr IMR3031. As a shooter it's nicely balanced and shoulders pretty well. The battle sights (ladder flipped all the way forward) works pretty well at about 100 yards. You DON'T have to guestimate 2 feet low at 100 yards as with many of it's contemporaries.
Clean it up and use it.
 The Lebel is one of the most mis-characterized rifles in history. It's far better than has been portrayed by many "armchair historians". It's a classic battle rifle that served the French Army well.
The French Poilu was actually pretty well armed and equipped in WWI compared to most countries. Remember, they stopped the German Army before Paris and drove them clear across the country, then held them there for the rest of the war.
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Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: November 19 2011 at 4:50am
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Got my "Balle D" ballistics wrong:
It drove a 198gr solid brass (or bronze) spitzer boat tail bullet at 2400 fps.
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 19 2011 at 9:16am
| congrats - i know nothing of these but it is an interesting piece |
Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: November 19 2011 at 10:14am
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Aside from being the first rifle to use smokeless powder they have a reputation for accuracy. I understand that the French Foreign Legion particularly liked them. After WWI they insisted that they could exchange their newer Berthier model 1916 rifles for the old 1886/93 Lebels. ------------- Have a Nice Day If already having a nice day please disregard |
Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 4:01am
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The Lebel is lighter and better balanced than many of it's contemporaries.
It can hold ten rounds, but closing the bolt on a chambered round nowadays can result in a broken extractor. Spares aren't particularly available anymore either. This was regular practice in WWI though. The rifle was loaded in this manner on the order CHARGEZ! Otherwise it was "APPROVISIONER" which meant to load the magazine but leave the action and chamber empty.
Reading firsthand accounts from French soldiers, actual engagements were often a series of brief fights, where the Lebels were rarely fired empty. The "Boche" would rush and be driven back (or vice versa). This would be repeated multiple times with only enough time to fire a few shots. The Lebels would be re-loaded (or "topped off") in between. The rifle's slower to load tube magazine was far less of a liability in practice than it's been made out to be.
Something else, fixing the bayonet made almost no difference in group size or point of impact. This is quite unusual among most military rifles.
Darn it! Now I'm thinking of getting mine back out of storage and in use again!
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