Enfield .303 for hunting
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Hunting with the .303 British cartridge.
Forum Description: Share your hunting stories with the rest of us.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5007
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 8:17pm
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Topic: Enfield .303 for hunting
Posted By: peashooter
Subject: Enfield .303 for hunting
Date Posted: February 04 2012 at 2:09am
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I love my SMLE for target shooting but I am toying with the idea of buying a .303 for hunting with, I use a Parker Hale .270 at the moment but I do love my old Enfields. So do I need to get a sporterised Enfield .303 or can I hunt with a standard ex-military rifle. I would like to have the ability to add a scope but also shoot with just the iron sights So be gentle with me and please give me your opinions. thanks Richard. |
Replies:
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 04 2012 at 9:04am
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I prefer an Enfield that has not been butchered, bubba'ed, sporterized, defaced, etc myself. You can hunt with either one. The Military version makes in more difficult to mount a scope, there is however mounts that do not deface the rifle. The sporterized version and lighter and makes it slightly easier to transport in the field. The .303 is more then enough to take any North American Game for sure. Good luck and keep us posted on your hunting exploits. CM
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: February 04 2012 at 3:16pm
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To conform with deer stalking laws in the UK you must use soft nosed ammunition with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,459 feet/ second and muzzle energy of 1.700 foot pounds. 150 grain soft nosed should cover the legislation, 41.7 grains of Vit N133 behind a 150 grain bullet will give you 2949fps thats a top end load, bottom end load is 38.4 grains of N133 will give a velocity of 2753fps anything between the two loads should be well within the requiremints. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 3:38am
| Tony good point I did not even notice he was in the UK |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 5:05am
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I wouldn't say my primary hunter was "butchered".Parker-Hale did the conversion.Taken alot of game over the years(2 Moose last Oct). I have the same 1916 BSA in military config.(my Vimy vet). Both shoot sweet(its the user thats deficient  )Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 5:49am
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This is the perfect excuse to spring for a #5, HMG's "official sporterised enfield!" No, really.  As for a scope & BUIS you're pretty much stuck with the B-Square.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 6:03am
Hoadie anytime an enfield is taken from it's original military configuration is a butcher LOL, it's just that some do it better the others LOL
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hoadie wrote:Posted By: ArcherSix
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 9:39am
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I've hunted wild hog in Texas with my #1 MkIII* and handloads with Hornady 150 gr soft points to good effect. My rifle is as issued(as FTR'd?). Anyway, my point is that if you are comfortable with the issue sights, there is no reason to modify the rifle. Go with what you like.
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Posted By: saffer
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 10:30pm
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To conform with deer stalking laws in the UK you must use soft nosed ammunition with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,459 feet/ second and muzzle energy of 1.700 foot pounds
Another bit of useless legal mumbo jumbo. They are trying the same thing here in South Africa, and it got shot down very quickly. The hunting boys here are very vociferous here, and qucikly put our department of environmental affairs back in their place.
They tried the minimum calibre/bullet weight, that many of us use, but little concern is placed on the bullet construction, meat damage and actual placement. I have seen decimated and serverely wounded game using .270, but minimal meat damage and quick knock down on a 303 using a slower bullet speed.
Sorry rant off.
------------- Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts. |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 05 2012 at 11:33pm
| Saffer in your area what is the most common game hunted? |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 2:06am
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It isn't useless legal mumbo jumbo! Stalking in the UK is regulated quite strictly and is designed to give a CLEAN kill without wounding the animal and leaving it to run off and suffer appalling agony. Thats why I told peashooter to use soft nosed 150 grain bullets with a minimum muzzle energy of 1700 foot pounds and a muzzle velocity of 2450 fps which is close to the velocity of a standard 174grain 303 bullet and a lot slower than a 270 winchester or the 270 weatherby magnum. THAT will give him a clean kill on a red stag. Before anybody goes out deer stalking on their own they MUST pass the exams pertaining to the types of deer bullet placement and a marksmanship test and produce the certificate of competence to the land owner BEFORE they are allowed on the land.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 2:52am
Tony, What Proficiency tests are required for a Stalking there in the UK. Here in the US it is left up to the individual state. Before anyone in this state is allowed to hunt on their own they must take and pass a Hunters safety course and a Marksmen proficiency test. |
Posted By: saffer
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:09am
These laws that get passed, do not often address the vital parts behind good shot placement and bullet construction. As I said previoulsy, they tried it here, but the laws wehere so stupid, that you would need something like 375 to shoot a buck the average size of 25kg-35kg.
We also have to pass a stringent theoritical exam and practical exam, and also attend certain competitive shoots to be able to keep that certification.
My point I am trying to make, is that often laws get passed without consulatation with people who really understand the hunting business and ballistics.
------------- Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts. |
Posted By: saffer
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:24am
Springbuck (springbok) is the most common. Not the most difficult buck to hunt as they stand out like the national flag, and easy to stalk. A good farm can see these buck re-produce like rabbits.
The meat is fine eating. We get two other springbok speicies, black and white. Not generally hunted due to scarsity.
Kudu is probably the next most common hunted, and probably the most difficult. Kudu can stand still behind a tree and you can walk right passed them and not even see them.(GHost in the bush) Also good eating. Females or young males are better eating. Average weight is 180Kg field dressed. A friend of mine shot an olde female, that came in at 270Kg.
Another popular buck is the mountain reedbuck. You got to be fit to hunt this one as it likes mountainous terrain and when they get going all you see is white bums. I have huffed and puffed up many a mountain after these devils. About the same size as a springbok, and certainly worth the challenge.
Lastly gemsbok. One of the most dangerous buck we have. IF they get wounded, don't get in front of those horns. Many a hunter has lost his life or been seriously injured by one of the horns. Having a heavy calibre hand gun is good idea for the final shot if mortally wounded. Average weight 120Kg to 180Kg. Good eating. Females are better than males, and generally females are bigger than males. Female horns are longer as well.
Eland is the biggest of the antelope (buck) species we have access to. Weights can vary from 300Kg to 450Kg. Thats a lot of meat and this meat is by far the best. For the size of this buck, the meat is probably one of the better venison meats. Very close to beef, but very much more tender and has a suttle texture and flavour that one cannot explain.
Yummy.
------------- Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts. |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:31am
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More or less the same as yours we have level 1 and level 2 both tests take up at least a full weekend of lectures and practical work. The exams are very stringent level1 covers recognising sick animals recogniton of the types of deer knowledge of the calibres and legal bullet weights for each species from Red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, roe deer, chinese water deer and the tiny muntjack which stands around 16 inches high plus a marksmanship test fail any part and you have to resit it all again. Head shots are not permitted chest shots if the animal is head on to the stalker or a bullet placement from the side just behind the shoulder to take out the heart and lungs Everything is designed to ensure a quick clean kill. Level 2 covers the butchering of the carcass recogniton of parasites within the meat (if any), usually a vet will come and check any carcass which is to be sold to the general public before it is sent out to the game dealer. The forestry commission requires stalkers to have level 1 and level 2 certificates before they will allow stalkers to enter the land, and on estates that have let days the ghilly will take each person to the range to 1 check the shooter is competent and 2 to zero in the sights at 100 yards. Most animals are taken at a maximum range of 100 -150 yards on open moorland and considerably less if woodland stalking. The ammunition type and weight is stipulated and anyone found using the "wrong" ammunition is likely to be fined have their vehicle taken and lose their firearms ticket . ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: peashooter
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:44am
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I did my Level 1 over 4 days at a local rifle range in conjunction with the deer society. I really enjoyed it and learnt a lot, I hear a lot of people complaining about these 2 qualifications/courses but I think they are a good idea. I use 150grn sierra game king soft point in my .270 and by home loading I have slowed them down a bit because a .270 has a tendency to go straight through when going fast which is no good for a quick clean kill. You can talk all day about bullet weights, calibers and speeds but if you don't put the bullet in the right place you wont get a clean quick kill. Richard |
Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 4:15am
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Peashooter, if you are based in North Yorkshire you will know the Pickering range. The Deer Society are running a shoot at that range on 22nd April. It might be a good starting point to pick up a few tips. I know that the regular members of the Pickering Pistol and Rifle Club shoot all manner of Lee Enfields. ------------- We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go. Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow. Across that angry or that glimmering sea |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 4:20am
What kind of Pistols?
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Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 4:26am
Gone, alas. Only the firing point and the name survives. ------------- We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go. Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow. Across that angry or that glimmering sea |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 5:36am
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"Before anyone
in this state is allowed to hunt on their own they must take and pass a Hunters
safety course and a Marksmen proficiency test." I wish that were true everywhere. Here (in Maryland) I went to do an HS course prior to going to Arkansas the first time as there was rumored to be some good feral hog hunting. The local R&G club offers them & I'm a member so I figured that was the easiest way to find a course. Wrong! Believe it or not I'm too old to need to take an HS course  The theory being (I guess) that if you're old enough you must somehow be experienced enough as well? Round here if you're born before 1968 no course is needed you just buy the ticket & go hunt something down.The same holds true in AR as well as I went to get my permit there & was told no course needed. This may explain why there are so many bloody stupid happenings here every year! I've seen archers trying to shoot flying turkeys on private land they don't own, hunters criss-crossing behind a live fire range behind the backstop in full camo while the range was hot & live fire was occurring & even one hunter with a loaded crossbow hunting within an apartment complex right next to a high school! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 7:40am
I thought in the Uk you can have a revolver with a barrel that is X inches long min ? Do you know any of the requirments?
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 7:42am
| no fixin stupid , gotta let natural selection take its coarse |
Posted By: ArcherSix
Date Posted: February 06 2012 at 9:40am
or cap&ball/muzzleloading??
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: February 07 2012 at 2:57am
CM. Handguns come under section 5 of the firearms act! As I told you before mere mortals CANNOT posess a pistol. Criminals police and armed forces are the only ones who have them!! ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: February 07 2012 at 3:21am
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When I visited my 'tame' firearms dealer I came across a stack of Taurus .357 magnum 7 shot revolvers. They had 24" barrels and a piece of coat hanger wire sticking out of the grip. They were described as 'Carbine Rifles'. I see that .22 Colt 1911 semi's with a simular long barrel are also making their appearence. It all goes to show that people will try and find ways around every unjust law. Only cost prevents me from taking up black powder pistol. Not the cost of the powder, ball, cap and pistol but the cost of club membership. - £200 !!!!  ------------- We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go. Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow. Across that angry or that glimmering sea |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 08 2012 at 11:05pm
Tony I had read this, has this been changed in the UK? Long-barrelled
revolvers and pistols "Long-barrelled
revolvers" and "long-barrelled pistols" meeting specified
criteria are not classified as prohibited pistols; it is legal, with a Class I
Firearms Certificate, to own them. The barrel must be at least 30 cm long, and
the firearm at least 60 cm long, which can be achieved by having a permanently
attached extension to the grip or butt of the firearm. Single-shot firearms of
any calibre, and semi-automatic pistol of .22 rimfire calibres, are
permitted. Target pistols Aside from
special temporary exemptions for major events such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Olympics" rel="nofollow - , pistol shooting for sporting
purposes has been effectively banned since 1997. As a result, the GB pistol
squad has to practice abroad. A few models
of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol#Single_shot" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_calibre" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_pistol" rel="nofollow - , as used in the 50m Olympic
'Free Pistol' match, have been produced to meet the "long-barrelled
pistol" conditions. Some free pistols have removable stabiliser bars
extending backwards to improve stability; the UK-legal models have been made
with non-removable stabilisers to extend the dimensions, instead of contrived
and non-functional grip extensions. An example is the Pardini K22 Longarm. |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 2:07am
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As you say in your post the Uk squad has to practice abroad!!! The pistols as defined are for olympic squad and target nuts who can afford to shoot on the continent! I wouldn't class a revlover with a 30cm barrel and an overall length of 60cm as a pistol. Clubs who used to have pistol ranges still use the pistol and rifle club logo BUT none of the old hands including myself who had section1 pistols on their permits have pistols of any description on their permits. As I said in my previous post the only people in the Uk with pistols are the criminals police and army! Mere mortals are not permitted to have them!!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 3:31am
| Thanks Tony ! |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 11:33am
| sure glad we dont need lists and permits here - it would make me anti-government .....oh yes i already am , never mind |
Posted By: mitch2
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 2:07pm
| Sort of depends on the barrel condition of the gun you use, but if you can use a straight-stocked rifle, the Enfield works just fine for everything up to large deer size game. Some of the more daring (crazy?) army types took much bigger dangerous game in Africa. The 303 was popular in Canada as a hunting gun for many years. Just my personal opinion- a tight but all military gun is great for hunting. i don't worry about dinging the stock or scratching the finish. After all, if the boys used them so successfully in so many parts of the world, why not? |
Posted By: saffer
Date Posted: February 28 2012 at 2:23pm
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It has been said that Africa was tamed with the 303 ------------- Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts. |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 18 2012 at 12:16pm
------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: August 18 2012 at 2:21pm
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Hmmmmmmmm!! A muntjack ( the size of a small dog) and a 180 grain bullet. Maybe we should use a Laws and scrap the Legislation and LEGAL requirements as defined by the British Deer Society and let any cowboy loose on the UK hills and forests. We could have visitors shooting dairy cattle out of moving train windows too!!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 18 2012 at 7:43pm
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The slower 180gr would be better for the muntjack than the faster 150gr. One can slow the 150 down and on a small animal it will make no difference but the 180 costs the same and has better long range performance and is good for larger game. The 150gr on the other when driven to its potential will be flatter shooting but at closer range it does too much damage. It'll still work but the 180 is better. For varmint shooting the 150 is better and that includes bigger varmints. I've shot one antelope (duiker) the size of a dog (same size as a muntjack?) with a 180gr and its performance was perfect. Zero meat loss. I literally washed the dirt out the wound and cooked it up. ------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: August 18 2012 at 8:27pm
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I suggest you read the first post on this topic! Peashooter is in N Yorkshire a county in England! Shooting deer with a 180 grain bullet is ILLEGAL as I have pointed out in several places on the forum. The rules stipulate a 150 grain bullet for deer shooting!!!!!!!
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 19 2012 at 5:39am
Perhaps, but is it illegal for diary cattle from a moving train window? I hear that's how certain nations depleted the natural resources of the continent. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 12:55am
| so , im a little dim on occasion , but why do deer require a 150grn and a 180grn is illegal ???? im not seeing any logic here ?? |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 1:13am
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God only knows I'm guessing over penetration worries or something though. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 6:32am
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Well, I heard of a trucky driving along a country road when a 6mm bullet passed through his side windows in front of his face (or chest). I'm guessing the calibre was determined by the size of the hole in the glass. I do worry when shooting 180gr bullets because they can travel so far and still do fatal damage. I'm not sure the 150gr is any safer though. This is where the small calibre high velocity bullet come into their own. They are far less lethal at long range once they've passed through something - anything, even a twig. I've shot rabbits with a 303 and am always so aware of where that bullet is going to go. No different from hunting bigger game. A solid back-stop is a prerequisite. ------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 11:49pm
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I think the point of the law is that, assuming you actually hit the animal you're shooting at, the more heavily constructed 180 Gr with its higher SD will over penetrate, exiting the animal with lots of range & energy left. The 150 Gr with it's lighter internal construction & lower SD will be more likley to expand faster & stop sooner, particularly in a thin-skinned small to medium sized animal. As for something rabbit sized I've never needed anything bigger than a supressed .22rf. I'm not a big fan of rabbit stew.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 1:46am
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You hit the nail bang on the head Shamu. Woodland stalking is especially hazardous over here, you can line up for a great shot and next thing Julie Andrews comes marching through with a bunch of kids scaring the wildlife. The joys of living on a small overpopulated island where they think it's their god given right to trespass on private land regardless.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: dodgyrog
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 2:47am
| The velocity requirement only applies to Scotland! In England just meet the energy requirement of 1750 ft.lbs and have a calibre of .240 or larger (except for small deer eg Muntjac) |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 3:22am
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Dodgrog I have posted the energy requirements in an earlier post on here and added comments re Scottish requirements as well. Unfortunately some people cannot understand we have to abide by the legislation in place in the UK.
------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 5:05am
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well , i understand compliance with the law , its what we sportsmen do , but its nice when the law makes sence and is not just some idiots whim ,
we have , here in our state , a division line between the upper less populated area and the southern over populated area which seperates the "rilfe" zone from the "shotgun-slug" zone , its set up that way for the reason sugested above , so i can relate to the theory , its just that bullet weight seems so much more arbitrary .....unless one is concerned with the actual 'kill ratio' capability of some lighter bullets perhaps
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 6:14am
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Unfortunately a lot of game laws are written by legal administrators & attourneys, instead of hunters & sportsmen. I can think of one place & time where the law requires you to shoot 400~700 Lb feral pigs with a .22RF or squirrels with a rifled slug in a 12 gauge! It came out that way because of a kink in the game laws, not because of intentional obstructionism. Thinking back on this thread I find myself wondering if some of the discussion isn't based on a misunderstanding BTW. Could it be that the 180 gr bullets being discussed are the paper-patched soft lead ones with reduced loads that were mentioned earlier, rather than JSPs at 2700FPS? that might make more sense of the differences if it were true. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 8:26am
| aha , you may have hit on something there , perhaps someone will chime in and set us back on the path , |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 3:38pm
The suggestion that a 180gr bullet has a stronger construction is not a general rule. With available 303 Brit bullets, the 174gr Hornady RNSP has excellent performance on game. The Speer 180gr is a bullet with similar construction and works well too. I'm currently using a PRVI Partisan 180gr semi-spitzer, semi-boat tail bullet which seems to work better at higher loadings but does not 'blow up on impact' or destroy tons of meat. They're OK and at the velocity I load them to actually do not exit a goat with a longitudinal chest shot but cause little or no meat loss. I've had a side on chest shot in which the goat twitched then behaved as though nothing had happened and move off. It couldn't have lasted long but I never found it. Would a more explosive, faster 150gr have made a difference? Probably. But I put it down to poor shot placement - my bad. To drop them on the spot one needs a shoulder shot. P.S. Shamu, I've been know to impress people with my rabbit dish. I even impressed myself!
Trouble is, I've forgotten how I did it.------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 6:14pm
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My mum used to get cranky about picking all the shotgun pellets out before throwing it in the pot.
Marvelous how we never worried about lead poisoning back then, I'm sure there were the odd pellet or two still in that tucker.
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Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: August 21 2012 at 6:21pm
Aspirin was safe then too
 |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: August 22 2012 at 2:11am
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i recall being cautioned to chew daintilly so as not to crunch a tooth on that lead shot , i always shot #4s so as to have fewer to remove and easier to find , i was a far better shot back then - good eyes and reflexes are assets of the young
i remember having great fun with mercury as well , society has become wimpy
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Posted By: Lithgow
Date Posted: August 22 2012 at 6:50am
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Mum never picked out the shot, we just used to spit it out as we ate. We never died from it and we probably swallowed as much as we spat out. |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: August 22 2012 at 8:34am
| We probably ingested much more lead from leaded gasoline fumes than what we ingested from game meat. Remember leaded gas? Lead was put into the mixture to lubricate the exhaust valve seats so the exhaust valves wouldn't wear out too fast. |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 22 2012 at 3:44pm
------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: August 23 2012 at 1:05am
| You are correct, lead was used as an anti-knock agent but back then gasoline also had a higher octane rating than it does now which also helped get rid of knocking. |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 23 2012 at 3:42am
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In my parts one hears of hunters finding dead deer - gutshot. We had an incident this past roar in which two hunters in the bush we roaring each other. One was wearing a high viz orange cap. He got shot in the head. In another incident the same weekend (Easter), these two mates split up to round a hill from two directions to corner the deer. One shot the other. Our only 'training' is in the acquisition of the firearm licence itself. It should be enough but people do silly things and there sometimes seems to be an attitude problem or perhaps lack of practice and schooling. I know of someone who brags about his head shot prowess using a 223 on deer. It's a shot that appears to be very successful. One either drops it or misses. A miss refers only to missing the brain - not the head which is relatively large but they don't seem to realize that. I cringe when people talk of head shots. Another fellow used to take head shots and I always tried talking him out of it. One day it happened and now he doesn't do head shots anymore. Fortunately he was able to finish off the deer he wounded in the head. ------------- 303Guy |