Help Identifying an Enfield N0. 4 MK 1
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Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Info for New Enfield Owners
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URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5063
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Topic: Help Identifying an Enfield N0. 4 MK 1
Posted By: turboil
Subject: Help Identifying an Enfield N0. 4 MK 1
Date Posted: March 09 2012 at 2:47am
Hello I bought an Enfield No.4 MK 1 at a local gun shop and I'm having problems identifying it. I am attachin pictures and I am particular curious on why I don't see anything but a serial numberr on the strap from what I saw there should be a date and maybe some other marking there. 
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Replies:
Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 09 2012 at 4:02am
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It looks like the original numbers ay have been scrubbed and then re-stamped. Does the number on the bolt match? It looks like there was a modification of the rear sight, can we have a picture of it? Ed
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 09 2012 at 4:15am
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OKay here are 2 pictures of the rear sight. I took the bolt out but I don't see a serial number where should it be located? Thanks   |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: March 09 2012 at 5:11am
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Same here !! I was comparing photo with My MK2 Paki ..and I have the screw head on the right side of my sight mount ..unlike the left side in the photo .. Same thing on the 1943 No4 MK1 and the Long Branch ....????? ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 09 2012 at 5:19am
Here is a picture of the bolt S erial No.
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Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 1:01am
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Well, I hope someone else weighs in... I think the numbers were scrubbed and new ones added. The sight is an after-market item, not military issue. Are there any other marks on the barrel? Import/export stamps? And can we get a look at the right side of the receiver? Ed
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 4:24am
| I will post pictures of the right side shortly. The rear sight from what I can find looks to be a Parker Hale Apeture sight with windage adapter |
Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:06am
Here is the picture of the right side of the receiver and I took the back half of the hand guard off and I could see BZ on the barrel. The screw on the front band is stubborn and I haven't got that to off yet to get the whole hangaurd off so Ican get the barrel and the action out to take a better look.
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Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:45am
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I think you're correct on the sight and they are pricey and difficult to find. Hopefully, some one else will weigh in, my best guess just from the looks and stock would be a Fazakerly, but that is just a guess. It looks to be in very good condition, have you shot it yet? Ed
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:49am
| I haven't shot it yet I was planning on doing it tomorrow. Honestly my concern was is it worth what I bought it for after I started digging into it and if it isn't should I try and get my money back. I am not sure whether talking price is something that is okay in these forums or not. |
Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 9:19am
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Oh, sure, we'd love to know what you paid for it! Ed
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 9:33am
| Sure I don't mind I paid $399 which I thought out of the gate was about $50 too much but the bore looked good and the stock was nice. I also liked the target sites since I shoot steel at 300yds a lot of the time with some of the other older miltary rifles I have like my M91/30, M39 and 1903A. The one thing that got me being new to Enfields I thought the target site was actually an Enfield option not an aftermarket sight. Any way I appreaciate the help and just was seeing if I did okay for a rifle I really just want to have fun shooting with it this definitely won't be something thast just hangs on the wall. |
Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 1:37pm
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I think you did fine! I'm in the PRK and prices vary across the US, but at the last few gun shows they were asking $299 to $399 for No. 4mk1's, $350 to $400 for No. 1's, and $599 for No.5's. Lithgows seem to command a premium of $450. These are in average or worse condition. I can't tell if the metal finish is original from the pictures but your rifle seems to be in very good condition. I think you'll find that rear sight goes for $125 to $150 ( or more) on EBAY, and they are hard to find. I'm getting concerned that East coast sank or something since we haven't heard from anyone else! Shamu should be able to give some current price comparisons from Virginia/Maryland Ed
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:38pm
| Well I did some more investgation and the rear sight on it seems to be the one made for the training .22 rifle. These are not too expensive and sold on ebay marketed for the No. 4. The probelm with that is the reveiver hole for the windage screw needs to be enlarged with a #13 drill and another hole made for the detent ball and spring. Who ever did this didn't even bother to put in the detent ball and spring. This would seem to indicate that I may a receiver that now cannot take a stock sight if I wish to put one in and I have a aftermarket sight not meant for this rifle not even properly installed . |
Posted By: Lithgow
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 6:40am
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No4's didnt have a detent ball, they had a detent plunger on the right side and from the pics(they are all long and distorted on my computer), yours looks to have the detent plunger.
I would check if the mounting hole has indeed been modified as I think there was a sight that went straight on without that mod.
Looks like a nice rifle.
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Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 8:39am
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The detent I was referring too was for the windage screw. I am attaching a picture you can see where they actually did drill the hole where the detent ball should go but it is not there. The link I have put in here shows some other real Parker Hale sights for this rifle and also talks about the one that looks like the one this rifle has. I want to use this to shoot in Military Rifle and Vintage matches and at first I figured if the sight was not allowed I could just put on an original but looks like they reamed the hole for the pivot ping so that may not be possible. I must say everyone has been really helpful and this is a great learning experience in Lee Enfields I wish I had some of this knowledge before my first purchase but it is a nice looking rifle and although I have not shot it yet and I am sure it will be a lot of fun to shoot. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?149792-Correct-Parker-Hale-or-A.J.-Parker-sights" rel="nofollow - http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?149792-Correct-Parker-Hale-or-A.J.-Parker-sights  |
Posted By: Ed Hill
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 9:05am
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You are correct, they made the sight for the No. 4 and the 22 trainer, and I've seen the 22 model sold as fitting the No.4. They are cheaper, it's a shame it's not the correct sight. Ed |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 11 2012 at 10:23pm
Hi, Ed. I've been hibernating as all grouchy old bears should in the winter! Round here (2 Hrs W of DC) the rear sight would lower the value as most are collectors more than shooters. Having said that a #4 in decent all original, matching condition would be listed for $350~400. It will vary a lot even locally as I've sen sported (or hack jobbed bubbas) for $350 locally as well! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 12:28am
| I have always liked that type of rear sight. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 12:56am
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If I could have found one for .303 (with the correct height gradations) I'd have grabbed it in a heartbeat! Unfortunately the only ones I ever found were for the .22RF & so nowhere even close. I learned & grew up shooting #4s so to me there is something "right" about that big square slab of steel with a dinky hole in it. Even knowing how it blocks off things round the intended target. I still feel "nekkid" when I shoot the FAL with it's "hole in a tombstone"rear sight & could never get used to the ghost ring battle sight. Of course I was shooting targets & they didn't move or shoot back. That would probably have changed my opinion quickly the first time I lost a target! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 2:24am
| So the conclusion of my journey on this was since that sight was really not meant for that rifle and the receiver had been modified plus the detent ball and spring missing for the windage adjustment I returned it. It cost me a 10% restocking fee but in the process I learned a lot. The owner of the store pulled out a tag and see it syas No. 4 with target sights and claimed that was an accurate description. I told him I thought that was a general description accurate would have said target sights not made for this rifle but receiver modified for them to fit and missing parts. I was suprised when the owner knew nothing about the sights not even that it had parts missing and he said he could't be expected to know about every used gun they sell. Needless to say I will not buy from there again but I am still looking for a No. 4 MK 1 if any one has suggestions on reputable people online who deal in them. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 6:33am
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Sorry to hear you had a rough start into the world of Enfields. I have not dealt with him myself, but several have suggested A.B. or Brian Dick (I think) is the go to guy for really nice Enfields. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: turboil
Date Posted: March 13 2012 at 10:18am
| I checked out Brian Dick's website looks like he has some nice Enfields at reasonable prices. His place is only about 2 hours form me so I will take a trip down there soon. Thanks for the directing me there Shamu! |