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? for war between the states re-enactors

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Forum Name: Re-enacting
Forum Description: For those of you that like to keep history alive!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5339
Printed Date: January 22 2022 at 10:47pm
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Topic: ? for war between the states re-enactors
Posted By: Shamu
Subject: ? for war between the states re-enactors
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 5:51am
I was at a civil war re-enactment this past weekend & noticed those who were using muzzle loading caplocks were loading blank charges (that worked well enough, even if they did go more "POINK!" than "BANG") in a way that contradicts everything I've read about B/P blanks.Confused
 
I've always read you NEED a wad of some kind (shrdded paper or whatever for safety reasons) both to allow the powder to be pushed soildly into the breech, & to allow enough pressure to build up to get a decent discharge. These guys were using non-combustable paper cartridges all right, but they tore off the folded end, dumped the charge in, cocked & capped. No wad & no ramming at all!
 
Is this normal, or something done just for re enactments?
 
As it worked, why bother to wad & tamp blanks, or am I missing something?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



Replies:
Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 8:20am

Despite a great deal of missionary effort I am not a reenactor but I know quite a few. From what I learned ramrods were banned from reenactments several years ago after an idiot accidentally forgot to remove his before firing and almost killed a fellow reenactor.



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Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 8:51am
Ask Hoadie he was involved with this for many years, I was at the 150th Shiloh battle or Pittsburg landing depending on which side you were on back in April.


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 8:57am
My Great Grandpa (Mother's side) was there for the real event.

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Have a Nice Day
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Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 9:08am
Same here Bud


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 11:36am
Years ago they decided that -for re-enacting purposes- we should use no more than 60 gr of FFF powder per cartridge.Pre battle inspection(multiple times) should ensure that folks weren't "overpowdering". The reason for this is that some yo-yo in the 2nd rank loads @ 180 gr & fires over the shoulders of the 1st rank..it creats a real problem with injured ears & flash burns(as well as waste of powder.) The usual proceedure for us was to load, & ram (tamp) the 1st cartridge.Even @ 60 gr. that will give quite a bang.I was a re-enactor for 30+ years, & I never had a situation whereby we were told to leave our rammers behind.(WAIT!That didn't come out right! )Omit ramrods from rifles...Anyway-over the years there has been an idiot or two that have actually loaded a minnie ball & fired it @ the opposing side..but thats a pretty rare event.
For what its worth...
Hoadie
(Pittsburg Landing Cookie..& you call yo-sef SOUTHERN?!yikes)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 11:49am
Hoadie I said Pittsburg landing


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 5:40pm
Yeah-but you also said SHILO...Guess you call 1st & 2nd Manassas by its
"Nrthern" names too,huh? heathen!
Hoadie

(I remain "unreconstructed")

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 16 2012 at 9:39pm
I just took a look at the pictures. The ramrods are on every muzzle-loader in the pictures, but don't seem to have been used apart from cleaning maybe?

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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 12:16am

I enjoyed visiting the mock city they had, it was all period correct as well. 



Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 8:19am
Safety is the reason why nothing but loose powder is allowed in the barrel for actual battle reenactments.
The units I've been in, and the opposing units, all kept the ramrods under the barrel. You still need it to properly clean and oil the firearm after use.
For ceremonial blanks, we often followed the powder with the cartridge paper rammed firmly on top.
 
I usually was on the RIGHT side, if you're facing west! Wink


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: July 17 2012 at 8:53am
Smokey what was the loading procedures?


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 3:23am
i picked up this old P-53 recently , oddly enough it seems to be loaded - rammer stops about 3"shy of the breech block ......
 
 
 
i see i forgot to take a photo with her bay attached , must do that one day soon ,


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 6:18am
Have you got one of those C02 dischargers?

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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 7:47am
Springfield Armoury museum has LOTS of still loaded battlefield pick-ups.During the whirl & skirl of battle-if a round mis-fired the shooter often didn't notice & would load another on top!This was compounded by the fact that you were expected to get 4 - 6 AIMED shots off per minute - RAMMED!(I cant/never could do that).
As for loading for a re-enactment load..after the 1st you "rip & pour"-maybe give 'er a tap on the ground.Even @ 60 gr powder, you get a sheet of flame out another 5 feet or so.(Night skirmishes were something to see!
Smokie was one of those guys in a union suit with bullet-proof underware!

Hoadie
(The Confederate army was non-union)


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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 8:15am
With a flintlock, I could get off an aimed ball load every ten seconds. With a rifle-musket it's more like every fifteen seconds using minie bullets. I worked with paper cartridges in both cases. I was actually pretty impressed with the smoothbore flintlock's performance and speed of loading (until it started to misfire, about 15-20 rounds). It also shot straight enough for the usual engagement ranges of under 100 yards.
In the CW reenactments I participated in, the onlookers would notice that the left side (as you face west) never seemed to have any casualties. The RIGHT side would do a more accurate portrayal of a typical engagement. I remember one instance where the audience yelled at the left side to "take hits, take hits, take hits . . . " LOL


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 18 2012 at 11:13am
Yeah-that happens when you re-enact on baseball diamonds!
Then too-if your up north, you aint too likely to get alot of ANV participants...bein on northern soil kinda like Raid to bugs!
Gonna hafta burn yer boots after steppin on Yankee soil!!

My personal preferences were the 24 hr tacticals.(NO spectators-cept the judges). They were REAL easy! drive all night to get there-do the 48 hrs of dynamic skirmishing-drive back to be @ work monday.
Yep-freah as a daisy monday!!
Ask Rhino or Cookie-when I was @ Rhino's in may-I called up some of the footage from our battles..ask THEM how they looked(course even then we was outnumbered bigtime!)
Hoadie

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: July 26 2012 at 6:21am
The ANV was always outnumbered. They also shot straighter than the AOP, which is what demrats did to the US Army during the LFDDT administration. There wasn't enough rifle ammo for marksmanship training.
 
BTW,
LFDDT is an acronym for the clinton administration.
What the words are probably won't be allowed on the forum. Embarrassed


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 26 2012 at 9:39pm
"Gonna hafta burn yer boots after steppin on Yankee soil"
They thought of that. No Southern boot touched Yankee soil, they brought southern mulch with them & spread it everywhere they went!
 
I wondered why, now I know.Shocked
 


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 27 2012 at 8:12am
We bin gettin lotsa photos & footage from the 150th series.OMG..in all honesty, it makes us SICKLY!! I guess authenticity has gone out the window.They dont know the drill-HOW to march-battle formations..& I wont even get into the stuff they call uniforms & ecroutement!! (Corporals w/1st Sgt Sahes, workboots, polyester...
Hoadie

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 30 2012 at 4:50am
yup - she was loaded , friend who had the muzzle loading gizmos helped me pull a vintage wad and out rolled a charge of shot , but we have not yet been able to pull the wad over the charge - feels like concrete - soaking it in oil
 
BTW - i got some sort of virus ..... in this past couple months i bought this , two martinis [mkII] , and a snider .....waiting on a bayonet to shoot photos , but ill try to get them posted this week/end


Posted By: Mac 17
Date Posted: February 01 2013 at 12:43am
I was present at an event some years ago where someone fired a tompion at the boys in blue and it lodged in a drum.  Some years later at the same event a worm was fired at the boys in blue at about the same spot, and it lodged in some poor fellow's head.  The man survived, and inspections have been more strict since then.  In reenacting, the new guys (or drunk guys) can be dangerous.  We definately don't need ramrods spinning around the field, and yes, I saw that once as well. 



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