Restoring the woodwork, questions!
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Topic: Restoring the woodwork, questions!
Posted By: Zed
Subject: Restoring the woodwork, questions!
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 4:22am
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Gents, I am going to try and clean up the stock of my No8. It has some sort of varnish on it. I have a few questions regarding the finish. 1: Why does the linseed oil need to be boiled? 2: Should it be applied hot, warm or cold? 3: Is it ok to use a suitable paint stripper to remove the varnish? 4: How long would you need to steam the stock to lift the dents? 5: Should the inner surfaces of wood work be treated with linseed oil as well as the external surfaces? Thanks in advance for any advice, this is my first renovation so want to get it right. Zed. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Replies:
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 6:15am
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OK, I'm going to try to anwer them all in order. 1: Why does the linseed oil need to be boiled? It actually isn't "boiled" as such, but treated with chemicals that let it harden to a more glossy-looking surface finish. "Raw Linseed oil" never really hardens or sets, but it was the original finish, not BLO. BLO looks "nicer" not too shiny like Tung Oil, but not matte like raw linseed. You don't boil or add, its done at the factory before you buy whichever version you prefer. 2: Should it be applied hot, warm or cold? Yes!  Its applied at room temperature, but rubbing the wood during & after application warms it through friction.3: Is it ok to use a suitable paint stripper to remove the varnish? As long as you get something that will ONLY attack the varnish. I don't know what options are available in France, but there's a U.S. Product called "Citri-strip" that is highly thought of, maybe theres a French equivalent or its sold in France? http://www.wmbarr.com/citristrip/default.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.wmbarr.com/citristrip/default.aspx 4: How long would you need to steam the stock to lift the dents? You shouldn't need to steam the whole stock, just the dented spots themselves. The usual trick is pretty much instant, apply damp cloth to area, press onto damp cloth with hot domestic clothes iron hold long enough to get a good *hiss* & *puff* of steam forced down into the wood, lift away iron. Minute or two per dent at the most. Never hold the iron in contact long enough for the cloth to dry out locally, its the steam that does the work. You could practice on an old bit of fence post or something to develop your techniques before risking the stock wood. 5: Should the inner surfaces of wood work be treated with linseed oil as well as the external surfaces? I do, usually diluting the first coat or two with alcohol for faster, deeper penetration, some others use alternatives. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 7:12am
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Shamu, You are "The Man" of much wood working knowledge! ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 7:40am
| Shamu, I like the idea of the steam from a clothing iron on a wet cloth. Some irons have a steam feature that might help the process you described work even nicer. I have used some citrus based cleansers before and they do work well and they smell like lemon. |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 7:45am
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Dont use the Wifes Iron Like I did !!!!! Gets you put into the Dog house !!! LOL!! , Go buy a cheap one just for this purpose !! Or watch the Yard Sales !! ...But I usually Wet the dent then place the wet cloth over it and press the iron onto that spot , repeat if necessary !! And the Linseed oil , I rub it in with an old shirt (cotton) and then let it set for a bit , then wipe off excess , then when I get back a week later I do it again ....untill I get the finish I like .... Rubbing it each time with 00000 steel wool when its dry to touch ....Practice on a peice of wood first and you will see what has to be done !! ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 9:18pm
The only problem with steam irons is that they produce too much steam in too many places. It tends to steam your fingers as much as the wood .Personally I just get the el-cheaponar irons & set the temp to the highest possible setting. I do suggest practicing on scrap wood first though its really easy to "cock" the iron's tip & steam a seam into the wood surface.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 26 2013 at 9:50pm
Just for the record...dont use the bathtub for restore work on your rifles,either.  It gets REALLY expensive!  (Women have NO sense of humour or generosity)  Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
White Rhino wrote:Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 12:57am
| I know what you mean by the women getting angry and such. Last year after our deer hunt when we arrived back home at buddies' house and his wife greeted us at the RV storage spot where they keep their trailer we were faced with the ire of a woman. Seems we two hunters had placed our deer on tarps on the floor of the trailer and when she saw that she hit the roof!! NO DEAD DEER IN MY TRAILER said she. She was so angry she told us to clean up the trailer and buddy had to sell it and buy a way more expensive unit as punishment. Now he is in big debt again! I squirrled away before the frying pans started to fly about my head! She will NEVER let us live that down...ever. So, my point is, don't use the wife's iron to take dents out of rifle furniture! |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 1:13am
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"..I squirrled away before the frying pans started to fly about my head! She will NEVER let us live that down..."
a wise move i think , and i bet she wont ever let you use the trailer for hunting again either ................
shamu covered things quite well so ill only add my oppinion the some dents are better left as moisture tend to raise the grain of the wood in addition to the depression of the dent
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 2:55am
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Thanks Shamu for the advice; especially with regard to the linseed oil. I had vision's of boiling up a pot load in the kitchen. I have a mini steam cleaner that has a adapters that should be ok, if not I'll use the iron! I'll take some before and after photos and let you know how I get on. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 6:35am
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"I had vision's of boiling up a pot load in the kitchen." If I can save you from the wrath of Mme. Zed when she found you sauteing half a litre of linseed in her omlette pan then I've done a good thing!  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 27 2013 at 10:32pm
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Shamu-you shudda let it happen! Afterall,misery LOVES company..& we woulda had a good laugh(@ someone ELSE'S expense for a change!) Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 28 2013 at 3:05am
I'd have just thrown some french fries in and said I was cookin'  ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: February 28 2013 at 4:00am
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Well...you ARE inn France.Guess that would fly Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 28 2013 at 6:10am
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Literally I think. But it sounds like Zed is quite agile (& practiced) at dodging low flying cast iron pans.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 3:20am
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I got started on the renovation yesterday, everything came apart really well, all the screws are in good condition and nothing jammed. I have stripped the varnish off the wood and steamed out the bigger dents.
Now I need to prep the wood prior to treating with BLO. (I still need to buy the oil). Any good tips on prepping the wood? I was told to rinse the wood with water after any sanding to remove any dust; makes sense, bu  t would an air line not be as good?------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 4:19am
| Yes it would, washing down with water has a tendency to raise the ends of exposed grain, which means sanding which we prefer to avoid. |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 4:52am
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Thank you Muffet. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 6:10am
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You could use a rag moistened with "denatured Alcohol" (Methylated spirits) as it won't raise the grain by anywhere as near as much. You can gently "buff' (not scrub) with green scotchbrite after it dries out, to bring any raised grain back down. Theres also a product in the U.S. called a "tick cloth", basically a treated cloth with something "tacky" impregnated into it for just such a purpose, but I have no idea what the equivalent would be there. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 7:46pm
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As shamu says use a scotchbright pad or fine wire wool. Sanding can destroy the markings stamped into the stock. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 10:19pm
| whatever you do preserve that number in the forearm |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 05 2013 at 2:44am
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I have preserved all the markings on the wood, I have just given it a gentle go with scotch-brite and fine wire wool to get it smooth, vacuumed the dust off and am ready for the oil. I found several markings that were not visible with the varnish, plus a nice rack number 1 on the front of the forearm wood. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 4:35am
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I have managed to keep all the original markings including the painted rack number. How many coats would be normal for a good but not too shiny finish? The first coat went on a bit thick and I had to rub off some dried runs at the edges, so I am being more careful now.   ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 5:38am
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Zed, just keep rubbing it in, it's more a case of how much can the timber soak up.
Linseed oil was used as a longtime preservative, if left in the sun it will always seep to the surface, a quick wipe off and you keep on shooting.
As the finish dries it will form a matt gloss look, a wipe over should make it shine a bit more, that's the level you are trying to achieve. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 6:47am
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BLO, as opposed to plain linseed, is nowhere as "fluid" after application. Once "set" it pretty much stays as-applied. Thats the major difference between the two, the amount of "set". Linseed will bleed out, but BLO will form a semi-solid film, so you need to treat the two differently. Because BLO actually dries I usually apply it with a few (4~6) cotton balls in a 5" (or so) square of "old well washed no lint left" T-shirt material. Just plonk the cotton balls in the middle of the material, gather up the corners & so on to make a ball with the fabric outside & the cotton balls inside. The cotton balls hold a "working resevoir" of the BLO & the t-shirt is a dispersal filter if you want to call it that. The old adage is: "Once a day for a week, Once a week for a month, Once a month for a year, Once a year for life." Thats 23 coats over the first year & as many top ups as you have years.  It starts to look really nice after about the first 10~12 coats, but keep going, the more you add the better it looks. If it gets too shiny you can use a piece of hessian, or burlap (sacking) to dull the shine without removing the surface.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 10:20am
| dispersal filter...sounds like my kidneys after an evening of beer! Seriously though, your method does sound good, I'll try that next time, Shamu. |
Posted By: lmao_37
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 11:41am
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Great tips on stock finishing i am going to refinish my after market mosin nagent stock and iam going to follow the instruction on here. I read the parts about upsetting her indoors and iam guilty to well i have done something that upset my wife really bad. We went to a West Texas country hardware store looking for a washing maching and i came out to the wrath of khain after woulds as she wanted new shiney washing machine well i came out with an AK47. It has cost me a new washing machine and drier a new cooker and redecorate the kitchen and i dont think she has finished yet 
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 12:47am
I usually upset the wife. If I don't she thinks I'm "Up to something" & she gets upset anyway. Frequently I use the "Bill Engval Defence", Whut, sweetie? I'm just a guy so I can't do any better. This is all the feelings I'm capable of expressing! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 12:52am
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Just remember to dispose of the oil soaked materials outside in something non-flammable. Linseed soaked rag can spontaneously combust. Sometimes hours after you throw them out. (Thats one of the things I did to PO, the Mrs once.) You can also get a shiny finish if you intentionally want one, just use a 50/50 mix of linseed oil & she!!ac, (She!!ac???? Errr, umm, spelling checker for naughty words got me again) instead of plain linseed. It used to be called "Old London Oil". Mix in small quantities, use like linseed, but wipe off excess the next morning. They don't want to mix so shake very well to blend before applying.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 4:39am
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Thanks gents for all the info and advice. I will not go too shiny on the finish. The wood has a lot of marks in it, all part of the history and I don't want to make it look too new! Just wanted to get it looking good without the cruddy varnish that was on it. I'll post pic's when I've finished. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |