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375 flanged nitro express

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: After Market Enfields
Forum Description: What have you done to that Enfield??
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6563
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 3:16am
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Topic: 375 flanged nitro express
Posted By: Long branch
Subject: 375 flanged nitro express
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 2:22pm
Anyone who knows me knows how much I like the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness". I also have a love of vintage hunting rifles and classic cartridges. Now I can add a love of the enfield rifle to the list.

     I see many SMLE rifles sitting on pawn shop shelves with sawn or synthetic stocks and rusty bores. It just breaks my heart. I would like to breathe new life into some of these.

     So, has anyone here ever converted an enfield to this cartridge or otherwise had any experience with it? I plan to use this caliber with heavy, cast bullets.

     In my research, which has yielded little information, I have read mention of an O.A.L. issue in relation to magazine feeding. As this will be a handload-only proposition on my side of the pond (US), this shouldn't be an issue, as the bullet can be seated deeper.

     Does anyone have any reloading tips? Equipment sources? Cartridge dimensions? Load data?



Replies:
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 11:37am
There is someone here in NZ that has a 375/303 (38 Hawkins - see the 38-303 thread) which is similar.  I could ask him for load data (he only shoots cast though).

Those rusty bores are not lost for someone who wants to fire-lap them and hand craft cast or paper patched bullets.  Paper patched bullets can produce jacketed velocities.  But a 375 seems to me to be just the ticket.


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303Guy


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 1:02am
Cast bullets are right up my alley. Now I just have to find a chamber reamer.


Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 12:23pm
The 375 flanged nitro express is a sister cartridge to the 375 H&H magnum.  You could just chamber the rifle to the latter.  But as you said, there will be an OAL problem for magazine feeding.  Deep seating might cause a bullet jump problem for cast and seating below the shoulder is not normally recommended for cast.  Then there is the possibility of a factory load being fired in the gun, the same applies for both the belted and flanged cartridge.  It would be doable to wildcat the cartridge, shortening it to fit the magazine but then that brings you back to getting a reamer.

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303Guy


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 2:11pm
The sister cartridge to the 375 h&h is called the 375 flanged magnum. It was introduced about 13 years later than the 375 nitro express. It's a different cartridge entirely. It's just a rimmed version of the belted magnum cartridge. The 375 flanged nitro express 2 1/2" is a nearly straight wall cartridge. As far as factory ammunition goes, I've never seen a box on a shelf.

%20" rel="nofollow - http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/nitro.html


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 11:36pm
Got a broken link there LB.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 4:09am
I stand corrected.  

My search for the 375 Flanged Nitro Express yielded the Flanged Magnum Nitro Express which is the sister cartridge, introduced the same year as the belted magnum which as you pointed out was 13 yeas after the flanged nitro express.

Here's an article which mentions the Flanged Nitro Express;  http://www.africanxmag.com/375_flanged_nitro.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.africanxmag.com/375_flanged_nitro.htm  It mentiones that Flanged Nitro Express ammunition is no longer produced.  It also mentions that cases can be formed from new Hornady .405 Winchester cases. It sounds like just the ticket for the Lee Enfield.

Just some thoughts; 

To me, having a straight walled case or a long neck is better allowing any seating depth and any length bullet (and perhaps the use of wads).  So if you are going to have to get a reamer made you could consider a longer neck and a steeper shoulder angle for head-spacing against.  Or any combination of characteristics you wish.

Then there is the .405 Winchester for which reamers should be available.

I just happen to know of someone in the US who could likely do a chamber of your choice and possibly sizing dies too.


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303Guy


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 9:15am
Kynoch still makes the ammunition. At least they still list it, but my intention is to use it as a cast bullet brush rifle. Kynoch ammunition is rather pricey for my purposes. I won't be going after cape buffalo with it.

I'm interested in that information on the reamers and dies. I appreciate it.

The link worked the other day. Maybe this one will work.
http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/375%202.5.htm" rel="nofollow - 375 flanged 3 1/2"


Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 4:48pm
That worked.  Interesting.  Well, factory ammo would be quite safe in a Lee Enfield.  I'd say cast velocities would be about the same and even higher if one were to carefully develop a load.  But there's no need to go higher.  Now a heavier bullet at those velocities would be in order if so desired.

I'll PM you the contact for this fellow.  I recommend him because I know he is rather particular in getting his chambers perfectly aligned with the bore and I know he has made a chamber for his own wildcat cartridge for a No4.


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303Guy


Posted By: Longbow14
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 1:53am
the good old brit does pretty well against most animals. I do understand the need to rechamber if the barrel is toast.


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: January 15 2014 at 12:42pm
My plan is to get a No.1 that's been buggered with a scope mount. I'll remove the charger bridge, plug the holes in the receiver, groove the action for a dust cover, install a new barrel, fabricate an express rear sight, and send it off to a friend for blueing. While it's of to the finisher, I'll be hunting down a walnut stock and some checkering tools. This project might span years. If anybody has a reason why any part of this is a bad idea, I'm all ears.


Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: May 11 2014 at 6:58pm
Hi there can you import actions from Australia LE1* sporter rifles come up reasonably often for around $300.00 Aus it would be much easier than what you are suggesting. I have 2 off them as sporters 1 still 303 the other is .375x56r Steyr both have aperture sights the 303 still has the dust cover but it makes mounting the aperture sight difficult I ended up mounting a Redfield sight on the bolt side.The .375 is built on an 8x56r Steyr case and works very well I think a little more powerful than .375 flanged I will take some photos of the rifles.
musso     

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musso


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 8:22am
I probably could, but, by the time I paid all the fees and jumped through all the hoops, it's cheaper to build it.


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 2:43pm
Marble's still makes the express sight
https://www.vintagegunsights.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=23&category=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.vintagegunsights.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=23&category=0
 
Sounds like an interesting project.


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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: May 12 2014 at 5:07pm
I'd really have to make the sight for the rifle in order to make it work right.


Posted By: hybridfiat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 8:50pm
Ive a friend who has been playing around with wildcats and custom chambers for decades. 20 years ago he showed me a rechambered No1 MkIII that had a .375 barrel and used a cartridge developed from a .303 British necked out to .375 and fireformed to a straight wall.
He used hard cast projectiles with gas checks. I remember they were heavy somewhere around 250gn-350gnHe said they were very effective.
Ill try and contact him and find out his loads and ballistics. He kept records of most of his experiments


Posted By: rico567
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 5:36am
Making an express rifle like this is an interesting project. Years ago, I built a rifle for  friend from an Argentine Mauser with a pristine DWM action. Chambered it in .375 Whelen Improved, easily formed from .30/06, although expensive to do the fire-forming, even with the Speer 270 gr. bullet. Put on a 22" medium heavy McGowen barrel, express sights, other than that kept it pretty straight military except for a rubber butt pad. Medicine for grizzly up around Nome, AK, loaded with a Barnes 300 gr. solid, which it shot well.

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"Arms and the man I sing."
-Virgil, The Æneid


Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: September 03 2014 at 1:47pm
Why not just stick with the .375H&H Mag? I've shot dogs, reedbuck, bushpig, warthog, eland, giraffe and even cows with 300gr BarnesX. Perfect calibre for anything out to 300 meters without the need for a scope. Components are readily available in "ready to fire" form.

I once saw a s-x-s .375 that was as light as a feather. Never got up the nerve to shoot it even though the shop owner offered to pay for the rounds!

An interesting calibre formed from the .375 is the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. Its a .375 necked down to .22. Throws a 50gr bullet at 4500+ fps. One of the few calibres where the powder charge is higher than the bullet weight.



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If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it.


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: September 05 2014 at 8:21am
I can't put 375 h&h in an enfield. I want the rifle because I like the movie. I can find 303 brass to blow out. H&H brass, not so much. In America, the H&H calibers are not commonly used.


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 3:01pm
LB:   I have recently acquired another #4 this one a #4 m1* Longbranch.  it has weak rifling and a cut barrel so my idea is to rebore to either 35-303 or 375-303.
 
On my thread at Cast Boolits asking about this cartridge,,, Bullshop has commented that the .375-303 can closely approach the .375 H&H as factory loaded.  that is 300 gr bullet at 2100 fps.
 
That is a little more fun than I could take so I'm looking more like 300 gr Cast at 1600 fps and 300 gr jacketed bullets at maybe 1800 fps which is nothing to sneeze at either. 9lb + rifle when done.
 
Something for you to consider as the road to a working rifle is much shorter this way.  Other ways tend to have feeding problems which are not easily solved. I abandoned a .348 Win Conversion for this reason.  The .35-303 or .375-303 are plug and play.
 
Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 7:47pm
The. 375/303 is looking like a better option at this point. I was going to have to fireform .303 brass to make .375 flanged cases that would come out too short anyway.


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 8:46am
If there is any way you can chuck your cases in a lathe and turn them while expanding it works much better than just squashing them in a press.
You can make a mandrel to expand the case necks with 2-3 steps on it so the case mouth is expanded in steps. This works the brass much less than just stretching it in one swipe
 
Also Rotating it slowly in the lathe with oil on the tool will make the process a whole lot easier on the brass.
 
just some thoughts to help you achieve success.
 
I've made many brass formed objects like this in my Shop.
 
Contact JES Reboring at http://www.35caliber.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.35caliber.com/   He is set up to do either caliber(.35-303 or .375-303) right and has done many of them.  $225-250 for the whole conversion, which is pretty reasonable.  1-2 week turn around.
 
Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 9:35am
I can put the barrel in myself. I'd rather put in a new barrel than have the old one rebored. .375 would make one thin barrel if rebored from a stock.303 barrel.


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 7:19pm
Mine is .593 at the stock muzzle end on the .303 at 25" barrel length,,, and @.650 at 20" for the Mk1* which has already had the barrel cut.
 
.650 -.375 is .275 / 2 = .1375 on a side
 
The .358 conversion yields .146 per side and adds .009 to each side.  Either one would be fine.
 
I am pretty much sold on the .35-303 conversion as it will do more than I need or want. The Selection of .35 cal Bullets and Boolits is large and you have the added benefit of using Pistol Bullets for light rounds.
 
Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: November 22 2014 at 3:25pm
Hi there My No4 303-35 is built with a rebored heavy Lee Enfield barrel cut to 22" I load it not too hot to 2450 fps with Siera 225gr Prohunter projectiles I would not want to go much more and my 375x56 built on a steyr case in a 1900 LE1 Enfield I load that with 235 gr speer at 2500 fps not flat out but a good stiff load I dont think 300 gr at 2100fps is possible and keep your head . the Steyr case is quit a bit larger in capacity than the 303 case the 375x56 produces about the same horsepower as a 35 whelen at lower pressures both rifles are quit light and both good fun to shoot the 375 bucks a bit but still comfortable.
regards Musso

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musso


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: November 24 2014 at 9:29am
Musso:  Great looking guns and especially the .375. When was the .375 built?
Would it be possible for you to post a close up pic of the Rear Sight on that gun?
 
Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: November 24 2014 at 3:06pm
Hi there Randy the .375 when I bought it was a 303-25 and I cant tell you when it was built.As the .375 I built it 2 years ago I had a .375 H&H built on a P14 Enfield with the std barrel bored out and the rifle was a bit light to shoot so i pulled out the barrel and replaced it with a heaver one .Then I had to do something with the old barrel and I already Had 4 other 303-25 so I slipped the .375 barrel in to this rifle shortened the for end a bit added some Australian River box tip and grip cap fitted a Parker Hale PH16 rear sight and an old banded front sight bead blasted the hole lot and blued it My son tidied up the checkering for me and there you have it

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musso


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 24 2014 at 3:29pm
nice loooking rifles 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 25 2014 at 5:20am
I'm curious. It looks like the receiver-mounted safety was replaced with the bolt mounted one. Any idea why?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: November 25 2014 at 9:48am
Musso:  looks pretty good to me. I will probably blast mine after detailing the exterior and then blue it as well.  My barrel has had  some minor welding done on it but most of it is below the stock line so it won't show.
 
The PH sight looks good on there as it doesn't take up too much room and yet still gets the job and gives you 2 axis corrections. Similar in size to what I'm trying to accomplish with my adapter plates and Redfield/Lyman receiver sights. I just scored a Redfield Series 80 off Ebay that I am mounting to my #4 Mk1*  which will be bored to .35-303. It is for a round receiver however my milling machine will fix that quickly.
 
I plan on reusing the Parker Hale Ramp Front Sight after the barrel is cut and hopefully I can get it on straighter than the last guy did.
 
Randy


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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.


Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: November 25 2014 at 1:39pm
Hi Randy on my LE1* 303 I milled a Redfield sight for a Mauser flat and fitted it on the right hand side so you can leave the bolt cover on it is a bit tight but quite neat and works good.Our 303-35 is slightly improved to the same form as a 35 whelen with a shorter neck and so we can just cut down whelen loading dies and they are the correct form if you measure a 303 case at the base and a 30-06 at 2.22"from the mouth it works out pretty right so you can also use a whelen reamer and machine the rim recess while it is in the lathe that means no special reamer no special loading dies.

regards Musso

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musso


Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: November 26 2014 at 1:46pm
Hi there Shamu the bolt mounted safety is standard on the BSA LE1 rifles it was manufactured in 1900 the flat and screw hole on the left side off the receiver where the later model safety goes was for the volley sight,this one does not have the bolt cover I am not sure why.My other LE1* has the bolt cover, that is why the Redfield sight is mounted on the right side.
regards Musso

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musso


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 26 2014 at 1:59pm
OK, that explains it, thanks.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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