Any new UK firearms restrictions?
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Topic: Any new UK firearms restrictions?
Posted By: 25-5
Subject: Any new UK firearms restrictions?
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 5:16pm
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In light of the recent terrorist actions, have any additional restrictions been implemented or proposed on the legal firearms owners in the UK. I have seen some onerous reports in a forum. Your losses are felt here with much anguish. Mr. Vickers is a hero to us as well. ------------- For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon. |
Replies:
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 6:25pm
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25-5: The incident was in Canada - Not the UK. Mr Vickers was an RCMP officer of 28 yrs, before he became Sgt at Arms in Canadian Federal Parliament. As of yet, I have heard nothing of any further restrictions on firearms in Canada. The latest perp was prohibited from owning or possessing..so now they want to find out where he got it Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: 25-5
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 7:03pm
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I apologize. I meant UK & Canada. Both had terrorist attacks. Most recent in Canada. We had a hatchet job terrorist in New York too. Only here the government calls it work place violence. ------------- For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon. |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 8:13pm
Yes of course, "move along citizen. Nothing you're allowed to see here." |
25-5 wrote:Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 11:35pm
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They are proposing to have unanounced "visits" possibly to try and catch out people storing weapons and ammunition incorrectly. This has been slipped in under the guise of prevention of terrorism act. Totally unworkable due to loss of staff and firearms owners being out at work, so they'll have to ring and arrange a day and time to visit. Some feos try and interpret the guidance lines to suit themselves which just makes more work for them in the long run, they don't realise if we have good reason for wanting a wepon of a particular calibre ( say 222 or 223 for fox ) and good reason is given then it's a no brainer they can't refuse. I'm lucky I got hold of a Parker Hale sporterised 303 some weeks ago I provided good reason and the turnround time was 3 days which is something of a record. But I do have a good working relationship with the firearms dept staff, they know me and my son and trust us to do the right thing. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 4:49am
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Question for Tony. When did home armory inspections end? I was surprised to hear that this was a new thing having been used to it 40 years ago! I remember, under the old, Pre-Hungerford, rules signing away privacy rights to the firearms sergeant could spot-check your storage & ammo any time he wanted? (Mine was cool with it though, always calling before he left the nick so I could "put the kettle on" & make sure to be there for the "surprise inspection")  It was, of course, a different world back then & the police & shooters were on the best of terms. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 7:44am
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Anyone who doesn't take proper precautions in storing their firearms, ammo and reloading components should not be allowed to have them. Surprise inspections or no. Either it must be under your direct control or locked away. How many times have you heard about little Johnny who shot his friend with his dad's gun he got from the cupboard. I feel nothing for people who are not taking precautions and may be slightly inconvenienced. They must be caught and pay the price. Its like going to the mall and leaving the keys in your ignition. Don't cry when the car is stolen. ------------- If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it. |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 8:58am
| The more I hear about these things, the more I love my state. We don't even register guns here. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 9:05am
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"Surprise inspections or no." The problem there lies with the different privacy laws in South Africa, The U.K. & The U.S.A. There is a specific enumerated "Right" written into the U.S. constitution. (The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure" rel="nofollow - searches and seizures , along with requiring any http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_%28law%29" rel="nofollow - warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause" rel="nofollow - probable cause .). I don't know if there is a similar law in South Africa, but I do know there isn't one in the U.K. The "Right to keep & bear arms" is also written in in detail in the U.S.A. as the Second Amendment. There is also (in many states) a right to armed self defense, something very hard to do if the gun is dismantled stored locked & so is the ammunition! In Britain it is a different situation as keeping an arm is a privelidge under British law , not a right. Those two variations in law make a huge difference! I hear you about responsible safe storage, but it used to go way beyond that in the UK. Back when I had a ticket there, in the 1970's, the rule was. Gun stored in an approved locked container attached to "the fabric" of the building so it couldn't be carried off for later opening. An essential part of the mechanism removed & stored in a separate, approved locked container attached to "the fabric" of the building. (Usually the bolt). Ammunition stored in a separate location (different room would do) in an approved, locked container attached to "the fabric" of the building from the firearm & its essential part. In the U.K. individual rounds of ammunition were counted to a "to have" & a "to buy" limit. Woe betide the numpty who made them the same if the firearms sergeant didn't explain to him that this meant you had to fire every bullet before you could go & buy more! A common request was "500 to buy & 550 to hold", that way you'd buy a brick when you got down to 50 rounds. Each purchase was recorded in your "ticket" (permit) a huge fold out thing covered in rubber stamps in a blue cardboard cover, that documented everything & you always had to have it with you. Even folded it was huge. As an example I used .50 cal ammunition cans or 30 cal ammunition cans, locked with combination padlocks but bolted to the floorboards with carriage bolts (coach-bolts to our Brit friends) having the domed head only showing under the floorboards & with the nut & lock nut epoxied to the threads inside.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: 25-5
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 1:51pm
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I knew you had more restrictive gun laws, but had no idea how intrusive they were. An Italian friend has similar problems in Milan. Thanks for the education. ------------- For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 2:53pm
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Remember this was 30+ years a go. I believe some of the rules have actually gotten less restrictive. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 7:41pm
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I look at it more like a traffic cop asking to see your license or do a vehicle inspection at the side of the road. I have no problem with it. The more they check, the more people who are not complying are caught. You should be welcoming more checks rather than putting up barriers between your self and the authorities. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. As long as they are not picking on certain individuals for no reason. My 9mm is always under my control and very rarely locked away, so it is ready to use. My other firearms, ammo, powder and primers are kept in safes as the law here requires (minimum - 3mm walls, 6mm door, internal lock mechanism, bolted to at least one appropriate surface). In SA you are allowed to license upto four firearms of which only one may be licensed as a self defence firearm and may have 1kg powder, 200 primers and 200 rounds ammo per firearm. If you register as a dedicated sports person and/or dedicated hunter, you are allowed "unlimited" hunting and sports licensed firearms, but only one self defence firearm. Ammo, powder and primers are also "unlimited". Whether or not you can justify applying for the licenses is another story. When purchasing ammo, powder or primers you have to sign the register. The police have access to that register. ------------- If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it. |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 2:42am
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DairyFarmer; In THEORY your right. If the programme is run the way it is proposed...but its not. I can't speak for elsewhere, but here in Canada we have no shortage of the police overstepping. They "trump - up" the siezures, as well. If they make a large bust somewhere they like to do a news conference & display the weapons they have confiscated. Then, on the next bust - you see the same firearms (always mislabelled & mis quoted by media) - just in different positions. They sieze at every opportunity. (Ft.McMurray flooding last year was a prime example). If they gain access to your house for ANY reason - they go sniffing around for firearms..'cuz once their in-they don't need a warrant. Ie: they attend for a "domestic". While there they ALWAYS start sniffing around.(If the guy had a firearm out for cleaning & it hasn't been locked up yet, you lose!) Worse yet-all my ex has to do is tell the police that she isn't comfortable with me owning firearms any more, & they will be barging thru the door & taking them all. And that's without ANY threats & / or reason. Any time the police get a bit of power, they exploit that to the maximum. Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 4:06am
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In France the system is reasonably good; or at least I have not heard of anyone having problems with it. But this may vary from region to region. The Gendarmerie can inspect the installations etc, or as in my case they invite you to the office for a chat, basically to ask a few questions about what you have etc. Providing they see you shoot regularly then there's no real problem. Personally I would welcome an inspection at least once, with the view to confirming the security of the safe's etc as all firearms are declared. Ammunition allowance is 1000 rounds per firearm, with limit to purchase ready made to 1000 a year for large calibres, but reloading components are free. Just so long as you don't make up more than the allowance at any one time. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 4:59am
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"In THEORY your right. If the programme is run the way it is proposed...but its not" That is the big problem here in the U.S. The anti gun types are twisting & "repurposing" words & anything else they can to get ban outright ban. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 6:50pm
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That is why we need to get as many people to legally and responsibly own firearms. Get it to the level of car ownership. The day powder trades on the stock exchange like crude oil is the day I can die in peace! ------------- If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it. |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 7:08pm
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I don't subscribe to the "if you have nothing to hide" crap I don't do drugs, but that doesn't mean I'm OK with the police barging in and demanding urine samples. Randomly coming to inspect my guns is the same in my book. |
Posted By: Frenchieboy
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 12:15am
On of the biggest problems (In my opinion) is (again as Tony says) that many Firearms Officers tend to try to translate the firearms laws and the Home Office Guidelines to suit themselves (And sometimes end up miles of course) which can give them a lot of needless work and often turns round to bite them in the butt if the person making the request for a particular firearm has "Good Reason"!
Like Tony I too have a very good working relationship with my Firearms Office (The same one as Tony's) and find our Firearms Office and it's staff very helpfull and efficeint - I have recently put in for a .270 rifle for deer and Any Other Legal Quarry ready for when I am back on my feet after my time in hospital (which is now booked for me to go in on the 18th November) and I got my FAC back with exactly what I had requested within 4 days of applying for the variation. However I have heard some real night-mare stories of some Firearms Departments in the UK taking many months for exactly the same type of request. The offending Departments (i.e.Those who work less efficiently than others) need to sort themselves out and get their departments working more efficiently before they go wasting money and resources on these unanounced visits and inspections! ------------- Wounding is not an option! |
Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 7:16am
Apologies for the delay I've been out of the country chasing roe deer up and down scottish hills best chance I got was a "texas heart shot"
Question for Tony. When did home armory inspections end? I was surprised to hear that this was a new thing having been used to it 40 years ago! The home armoury inspections are usually done when the certificate comes up for renewal (ie every 5 years) it's usually a cursory check on cabinet security and serial numbers, if you are known and the police are happy with your behaviour they often don't bother. They always ring and arrange a time knowing I'm out at work or skulking in a Highland bog  . The new idea is simply turn up and check un anounced which is unworkable in most cases as both Pete and I have said. ------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 2:38pm
I guess it slackened off a bit since my time. It was usually an average of once a year. (Maybe they didn't trust me as much as they trust you)! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 3:23pm
Answered your own question there, Sham!  Guess your one of the "usual suspects" Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: 25-5
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 3:57pm
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It is interesting that the UK limits how much ammo, primers, and powder. I live right next to Chicago. A place with an unsavory history. Many murders are committed there. Mostly gang and drug related. The perpetrators usually have one stolen pistol with a few cartridges.Those who have 20 or 30 firearms, thousands of rounds of ammo, thousands of primers, and many pounds of powder just protect their families, hunt or put holes in paper. ------------- For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon. |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 4:12pm
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I have girlfriend in Chi town. I can't believe the casual acceptance of the daily death toll! We have 7 fatal shootings in Toronto - a city of millions - & we're upset. Wow Hoadie ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: 25-5
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 4:41pm
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We do care. Maybe not so much when one gang does another, but a lot of innocents are killed. When a mom crying over her little girl is on the news you feel sincere sadness. There are definitely places you don't go in Chicago. Same in New York, Boston, Toronto, etc. ------------- For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 5:43pm
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ive had a single malt or two tonight , my opinion is that most governments [meaning well] have sacrificed their population to the whims of those unwilling to allow others freedom , they want to control and confine their neighbors to their own beliefs ....as un-PC as i am , i still would allow each and every person all the rights of any other person on earth , including the politicians who claim exemption and privilege above all the rest of us just sayin .....just my 2cents american , for what that is worth
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Posted By: Tony
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 11:39pm
Again I'm 1 of the lucky ones. My ammo limit is 500 of each calibre, my son has the same limits so potentially we could have 1,000 rounds of each calibre at any 1 time in the house. Soft nosed ammo comes under section 5 and you have to have specific permission for it or the gun dealers won't supply it, primers aren't a problem, I usually buy 1000 at a time and powder is the same though they do suggest we don't have more than 6 kilos of powder at any 1 time due to fire hazards which is reasonable. The craziest comment I ever heard was years ago when I was based in Liverpool. I asked for an allocation of soft nosed 243 ammo to zero the rifle sights and was refused, their comment was " It's illegal to shoot people with soft nosed ammo!" I pointed out I hadn't shot anybody unlike the police who had just shot a guy for waving a Katana around in the street.  Target ammo can be purchased mail order but you must buy soft nosed ammo face to face. As we all know soft nosed or FMJ it makes no difference if you intend to do some harm so figure that reasoning out. The daftest thing is shotgun ammo, there's no restriciton on how much you can buy and keep, if I was of a mind and had the storage space I could buy a pallet load and nobody would question it. I dunno about the US and other countries but here the favourite weapon for armed robberies is a sawn off. Semi auto weapons are a definate no no apart from 22 rimfire rifles. Moderators/ silencers for any cal rifle are easy to obtain. You just say health and safety/ hearing damage and they agree to you having them on your ticket. I'm prepared to bet a months pension if you asked for a silencer over in the USA there'd be uproar and anyone who was lucky enough to get 1 would be watched like a hawk. It's swings and roundabouts if you play the authorities game there are loopholes we can use to get what we want eventually.------------- Rottie (PitBulls dad.) “If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons Born free taxed to death!!! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 4:37am
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Suppressors here are a "special category", like full auto & calibers over .50. The process is surprisingly close to what the old "Firearms Certificate" used to be. (Background checks through CRO, referees (witnesses) & so on, plus there's a special permit you must have with you, restrictions on crossing state lines & last, but not least a $200.00 "tax stamp" every time you transfer something on that permit. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 6:48am
| There is no permit to have suppressors, only the tax stamp. At least that's how my state works. You have to wait on a background check and pay the tax, that's all. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 7:55am
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Sorry for the confusion, I meant the process is similar, not that you need to get one. This from the FAQ of a U.S. sound & flash suppressor for the non U.S. members. "In most states, individuals, Corporations, and Trusts can legally own silencers in the following states: AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MI, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. It is a relatively simple process to submit Form 4 applications to own a silencer. Typically, it is no more involved than obtaining a concealed firearm permit in most U.S. states. The typical process includes submitting two simple forms, two sets of fingerprint cards, two passport photos, a citizenship declaration form, and a signature from a chief law enforcement officer in your home jurisdiction. You can process a Form 4 without a chief law enforcement officer’s signature by means of a Firearms Trust. There are many attorneys who have vast experience with this type of trust, and it is also a relatively simple legal process. You do not give up your guaranteed rights in any regard. You are simply the registered owner of an NFA item. You will be the “registered owner” of that silencer, which is recorded on a “list.” But remember, you have a social security number, which is a “list”; you are registered to vote, which is a “list”; you pay your taxes, which is a controlled “list.” From your birth, the government has had ways of identifying you You can sell it, but the transfer must be done in accordance with all regulations. You can cross state lines if the state you are traveling through is a suppressor legal state. Other ATF regulations require a temporary permit for machine guns or short barrel rifles to travel across state lines." ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 8:15am
| Speaking of trusts, they will get you around some of the red tape. Lawyers will set them up for you for around $300. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 7:54pm
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lawyers - they always get their piece of the pie , i always wonder at those that wish to take our gun rights - after all it was those pesky brits that first tried to confiscate here , no offence to my cousins across the pond , but there was a method behind the madness - still not giving them up
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Posted By: DairyFarmer
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 8:27pm
What round is the easiest to use for home made firearms/devices? The shotgun! What round leaves the least ballistic evidence? The shotgun! ------------- If farming was easy, then everyone one would do it. |
Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 9:25pm
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I bought my first handgun a SW model 28 from a Police Officer about 30 years ago when his department switched to 9mm Autos. So in that case the Police definitely knew I had one. The is one LEO at my gun club who keeps telling me I should get an AR-15. There is an upside to living in Texas. ------------- Have a Nice Day If already having a nice day please disregard |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 6:55pm
| i bought my first rifle in a hardware store back in 63 , i bought my first handgun in a marine store in 65 , i have yet to shoot a single person and all my firearms have [in my possession] never killed anyone let alone threatened a single person , its always been the person behind the firearm that has killed the victim , if you liberals want to demonize - do it to the criminals you seem so want to release from jail , |
Posted By: Long branch
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 7:59pm
How often is ballistic evidence used to solve murders? Not very! Will a gun match the "fingerprint" on file for it once it has been fired a few times? No! How many murders are committed with legally obtained guns and ammo? Very few! |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 01 2014 at 6:57am
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I just watched that video. What happened with the second round fired? You can see the pressure vent in the receiver dumping smoke like crazy! Did the case rupture, split or what? Says something about failure handling in the Enfield, Rhino didn't even notice!  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: November 01 2014 at 4:57pm
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Thank God for Texas. ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |