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The Lee-Enfield "Mad Minute"

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Topic: The Lee-Enfield "Mad Minute"
Posted By: Shamu
Subject: The Lee-Enfield "Mad Minute"
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 5:02pm
Every now & then the topic of the "real" Mad Minute comes up. There are U-tube videos, countless wittering posts & so on, but the rather sad truth is that most of the information on it is lost, missing or was simply passed down by word of mouth a bit like tribal histories.

FWIW here's everything I've been able to find, dig up or read up on it. Enjoy!

“Mad minute” was a term used by British riflemen during training to describe scoring 15 hits onto a target at 300 yd (274.3 m) within one minute using a bolt-action rifle. It was not uncommon during the First World War for riflemen to greatly exceed this score. Many riflemen could average 30+ shots, while the record, set in 1914 by Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall was 38 hits.

[ Ian V. Hogg, The Encyclopedia of Weaponry, Sterling Publishing, New York 2006.]

 

The magazine and repeating bolt action of the Lee Enfield, adopted at the very dawn of the 20th century, allowed for an unprecedented volume of fire. The fast-operating Lee bolt-action and large magazine capacity enabled a well-trained rifleman to perform the "Mad minute" firing 20 to 30 aimed rounds in 60 seconds, making the Lee-Enfield the fastest military bolt-action rifle of the day. The Lee-Enfield Resource website has a video of 15 rounds in one minute, aimed, but no reference to the methodology & techniques used originally. It was not uncommon during the First World War for British Empire servicemen to beat this record! On average a rifleman could fire twenty-five shots, and some could even make it to forty shots.”

 

Supposedly there is a formal “Mad Minute reenactment” annually in the U.K.

During the 'mad minute' British riflemen were required to hit a target 300 meters away, with at least fifteen rounds fired in sixty seconds; one round every four seconds. A modern-day, semi-trained guerrilla soldier with a semi, or fully automatic assault rifle can easily top that, although not with the same accuracy, but the Lee-Enfield was a bolt action rifle, requiring the soldier to rotate and cycle a bolt with his hand between each shot. The rifle fired the powerful .303 British cartridge, which had a hefty recoil, and the magazine could only hold ten rounds, requiring several reloads during the minute.

Reloading a bolt-action rifle of the time involved sliding bullets from 5-round Chargers (stripper clips) down into the magazine from above. The Lee Enfield required two five-round clips, and debate still rages as to the best method for ensuring high-speed fire; polishing the clip guides, flipping the bolt with the thumb and forefinger of the right hand whilst firing with the middle finger, or even reloading with the Lee-Enfield's detachable magazine (not usually recommended due to manufacturing imperfections which could cause each magazine to be of a slightly different size).

The mad minute turned out to be extremely useful in the early stages of the Great War, when the lightly-armed British Expeditionary Force was on the defensive; the BEF's soldiers could put up a tremendous, murderous volume of fire against advancing close-formation German troops, many of whom reported that they were facing machine-guns. The upper limits of aimed fire in the mad minute were 30-35 rounds per minute, slightly more than one round every two seconds, including the time taken to cycle the bolt and stuff several clips into the rifle.

Here is probably the best-documented methodology available, but most of the documents & records from the period are destroyed so even this is speculative! Remember this was a "set up" World Record attempt, so there was a lot of manipulation & setup involved!

Targets

On military ranges, where most full-bore shoots take place, targets are chosen according to the distance and course of fire. The most commonly used target is known as a Figure 11. This is 44 inches high by 17 inches wide and depicts a charging infantry soldier.

The drill happened during WW1 so we can assume it was done from a trench standing with the rifle supported on a sandbag. A bench & bag is a reasonable substitute if you don't feel like digging a bloody great hole in the range firing line!

Load up at least 8 chargers with 5 rounds each!

The rifle is not slung & (this is vital) the buttstock never leaves the shoulder. Resist the temptation to "look at the bullets going in". Use tension from the left forearm to keep the buttplate in position firmly pressed into the shoulder pocket throughout. Try to keep the muzzle pointed at the bullseye as well, this is why the positioning setup is so important, the rifle should recover from recoil almost naturally if you do it right.

The bolt operation is done by butting the bolt knob in the bent right hand's "trigger finger" & held in place by the right thumb. That finger/thumb never leave the bolt handle, except when grabbing another loaded charger from the right front of the shooter's position. The second finger is used for the trigger operation exclusively. If you get it set up just right (which needs practice) you'll find as the bolt is "whipped sharply" into the closed & locked position the second finger presses the trigger without you doing anything except keeping it rigid. This takes a bit of practice but is almost instinctive when you get it down pat.

 

Now you're set up here's the actual firing drill.

 

Get prone or benched & rested & set up position so you naturally point at the life sized silhouette target at 300yds. (You can use a reduced size one at 100yds if you like.)

LOAD 11 rounds. (2 chargers & one "up the spout").

Fire 6 rounds as quickly as you can re-acquire the target. Time (1 Minute) starts here at the sound of the first shot.

Breathe!

You have fired 6 rounds & have 5 rounds left, DO NOT close the bolt on round #7, just whack in a charger with 5 more rounds & snap the bolt forward to eject the empty clip.

You have 10 rounds loaded.

Fire 6 rounds as quickly as you can re-acquire the target.

Breathe.

Keep repeating the "fire 6, charge 5" until either the minute is up or you run out of bullets after 38 rounds fired! Once you’ve fully emptied the magazine (assuming you’re still going) just dump in 5-round chargers & fire them off to complete the one minute time frame.

If you fire 38 congratulations you beat Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall’s World Record! Most can fire 15~20 aimed shots in a minute with just a day or two's practice, but the world record set in 1914 was 38!

Some rules for the course:

From Small Arms Training Volume No1, pamphlet No1.

No sling is permitted.

Pp28, 27, I

No sighting shots permitted

Pp28, 27, ii

Misfires. If the cap is proven struck round replaced & time to use allowed.

Pp28, 27, iv(a)

Forfeiture of rounds: Failure to fire in time is scored as “miss”

Pp28, 27, v

Firing after time allotted. Highest possible score for round is deducted.

Pp28, 27, vi

 

“Rested” is a sandbag supporting the forearm & wrist, no contact with weapon.

Pp28, 28, (a).

Now I'm not claiming this is the perfect dead nutz on 100% accurate "Manual of Arms" for the Mad Minute, but if anyone wants to try it its a good starting point culled from several sources.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



Replies:
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 5:29pm
Thanks for putting this together, Shamu! All this information is invaluable and I for one am copying and saving and printing for future reference.


Posted By: Von Gruff
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 8:19pm
This is a chap on another forum I visit who has done a video on the mad minute. Rob is a guy who is as authentic in everything he does so I would expect this is very close to the original method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak
 
This is his second attempt.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DhjUrqH88s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DhjUrqH88s


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Von Gruff

The ability to do comes with doing.   


Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 8:48pm
Very good Shamu,
 
Only one point I want to bring up;
 
In the book, "The Elements of Rifle Shooting" by Major J.A. Barlow, (West Yorkshire Reg't)
 
 
Major Barlow teaches rapid fire  using the normal or index finger to fire the rifle.  He states that 30 to 35 aimed shots can be got off in one minute, in this manner. 
 
I believe that "holding the bolt" is a newer idea, not taught at this time, as it was viewed as most important to renew the vise-like grip with the right hand for accuracy's sake.
Major Barlow insisted  that the thumb must wrap around the grip in the usual manner.
 
So! If we get good at doing it with the "short-cuts", we can then humble ourselves and try it as it was taught by the good Major, between 1932 and 1941.  (These dates are the dates of editions of his book)
 
Major Barlow was no theorist, being winner of the Army Championship, 1930 & 31, The King's Medal, 1930,
Queen Mary's Prize, 1924, King's prize  1934 & '38.
Also a member of the Army Rifle V111, in 1924, 1926, to 1934, 1936 to 1939.
 
Well worth a read, In fact, worth it's weight in gold I would say. Not too hard to find either!
 
Best,
Richard.
 


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: January 27 2016 at 9:04pm
Gary,
 
Rob always does a Fantastic job, but in this clip  uses a rest, and the original was taught with no rest.
I have tried it, and believe me, it is a Lot harder without the rest!....the butt can at times slip from the shoulder. Also the bolt manipulation is the way Shamu mentions, not the way it was actually taught at the time.
Not knocking Rob's presentation, and in actual combat, a rest would be taken wherever possible.
 
I remember as a kid seeing a British Sargeant  firing at a German helmet with his  No 4, at 400 yds, and he shot it full of holes rapid fire.  He too held the bolt as Shamu mentions, and as Rob demonstrated.
I don't know when the manipulation of the bold changed, or if it never did officially. All I know is it wasn't the approved method in and after the Great War, or right up to 1939.
 
Best,
Richard.
 


Posted By: hybridfiat
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 6:01am
My grandfather taught me the mad minute' as an 8yr old. He drilled the technique in, especially the fore finger and thumb. Granddad was a regular soldier before the war started and was with the BEF in France and fought in the rearguard action at Dunkirk then Nth Africa and Italy.
I practice the method with blank rounds. As live rounds are dammed expensive.
 I find my No4 Mk1 a lot slower than the No1 Mk3s we used as cadets. Probably the action is too new, too unused, whereas the No1s were polished smooth. Re-acquiring the sights is easier with the No4. A grippy butt plate would be really nice.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 6:29am
I'm not sure of the bolt handling as practiced officially. Sometimes "Field Expedient Techniques" are adopted by the squaddies even though it may not be "the way God & The RSM did it, the right way".
I do remember my grandfather (who was an RSM in the 13th Gloucesters), teaching me two things. Firstly you never "palm the bolt" with the Lee Enfield, that's a Mauser/P14 technique that will get the ball of your thumb sliced neatly by the rear sight edge, & secondly to use the middle finger in rapid fire ONLY. You still used the crooked index finger & thumb bolt knob grip, but "unhooked" it to fire in slow & timed fire.
Incidentally we were taught specifically to NOT grip the wrist of the stock at all firmly! We were taught to use the Left hand & arm to grasp the forend & pull it tightly into the shoulder pocket to position & sight. One exercise was to intentionally release the right hand completely (holding it up so the instructor could see it was away from the stock) while checking our Point Of Aim hadn't changed.

 


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 7:04am
Shamu,
 
What you describe regarding how to hold the rifle, (loose right hand) is Exactly what was taught in the manuals in Major Barlow's day.
What He presents, is Not the official way of doing things, and in the book he presents a very good case for why we should alter our technique.
(backed up by him being successful with it as well!)
He did follow the "party line" regarding bolt /trigger manipulation, but had differing ideas on how to improve our scores in other areas, sight picture and such.
If you get a chance, pick up the book and have a read.  it Does help no-end!
 
Best,
Richard.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 8:30am
I'm not sure why but this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak
Is blocked from viewing in the USA???
Not any more apparently as of 8/3/2019



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 8:35am
I found this, a different take with a bit more info while poking about for more "stuff":

"An alternate view & definition.

At the turn of the century the British Army was the most professional in the world with each soldier trained to be an expert marksman.   The Mad Minute itself is arguably a myth surrounded by myth, its proper name was Serial 22, Table B of the Musketry Regulations classification course of fire. Which instructed a soldier to fire rapidly into a distant target with 15 rounds being a target. However, this was not a requirement as the rifleman’s scores were calculated by aggregate with the other stages of the classification. The exercise of firing as many rounds as possible was probably a challenge set for fun to encourage pride in marksmanship and to see just how many rounds it was possible to fire in a minute. During the musketry classifications shoots of recruits and again shot each year by all infantrymen, engineers and cavalrymen to gauge how good of a shot they were. 

The classification shoot was shot in several stages shot out to 600 yards, the various stages or serials were laid out in Table B, Appendix II in the Musketry Regulations Pt.1,  these included grouping with 5 rounds at 100 yards, snap shooting with 5 rounds out at 200 yards, two 5 round stages fired slowly with the first at 400 yards from the prone position and another at 300 yards from kneeling.   Then came the so called ‘Mad Minute’ stage fired from prone at a target 300 yards out.   This was to be fired with 5 rounds loaded - 1 in the chamber and 4 in the magazine, the rifleman would then reload with 5-round chargers firing until 60 seconds had elapsed.  The target used for this stage was the Second Class figure target which was a 4 foot screen with a 12 inch high figure silhouette at the centre surrounded by two rings, a 23 inch inner ring and a 36 inch outer ring.   This stage was then followed by three final stages fired from prone out to 500 and 600 yards. 

The first and confirmed record for the most hits on target during a ’Mad Minute’  was set by Sgt-Major Jesse Wallingford - 36 hits at 300 yards in 1 minute in 1908.  However, this was allegedly bettered in 1914, by Sergeant-Instructor Alfred Snoxall with 38 hits within the 24 inch inner ring in 60 seconds.  It has not been beaten since although there is little documentary evidence of the feat readily available. This means Snoxall must have averaged around 1.5 seconds per shot to hit the target 38 times in a minute. Quite a feat.

Each man to shoot the classification course was allotted points for where each round hit - 4 points for a ‘bull’ figure hit, 3 for a hit in the inner ring and 2 points for an outer ring hit.  Troops could be classified as follows: Marksman (with at least 130 points out of 200 across the classification), 1st Class (105-130 points), 2nd Class and 3rd Class (sub-standard).  The majority of British troops, even cavalry, were excellent marksman with 50% of troops in some battalions scored as Marksman with the rest being 1st and 2nd class shots."




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 28 2016 at 4:07pm
that looked fun shy the snow , 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 29 2016 at 6:09am
Och Aye snow in a kilt! No wonder the Scots can be "dour"Evil Smile


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 29 2016 at 7:10am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Och Aye snow in a kilt! No wonder the Scots can be "dour"Evil Smile


Do not forget your wee brechs of you will never get by the inspection mirror.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 29 2016 at 9:00am
Today we mourn the passing of Hamish McTavish, inventor of the world's first oil-fired centrally heated kilt. His fate is unknown but he was last seen plunging into Loch Lomond with smoke pouring from his sporran!
Embarrassed


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 3:21pm
-=*** UPDATE ***=-
(Target info.)
The “Second Class Figure Target” was 48" square (approximately 1.2 x 1.2 meters), with 24” inner (61 cm) and 36” magpie (92 cm) circles. The aiming mark was a 12” x 12” (30 x 30 cm) silhouette figure that represented the outline of the head of a man aiming a rifle from a trench. Points were scored by a hit anywhere on the target.




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 3:46pm
Shamu. Assuming the "Mad Minute" was invented by the British, why is the officer in your target wearing a peaked cap and khaki?


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 3:54pm
His name was "Will"!
Confused
"31 rounds,
rapid fire,
in your own time,
FIRE AT WILL"
Censored
(Actually I have no idea, sorry)


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 1:10am
Maybe he had lost his horse ?

https://postimg.cc/Sj6VVFKP" rel="nofollow">



Or someone decided to 'colour in' the original which is believed to have represented the shape of the foresight blade.


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 4:14am
Excellent thread, enjoyed it much.
When I was in we shot qualifying similar to the outlined.
From 600 up to 50-75 yrds auto standing, or as it was called the run down.
Though the doctrin has greatly changed, it is more about supression fire to enable forward movement.
Easy done with automatic weapons.
Also included the browning high power from 50yrds.
I hated the run down!
Now when I did this it was in the early '90s, this has certainly changed since then, its now more about FIBUA, fighting in built up areas as infantry men.

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Lead from the front; eliminate all obstacles...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 5:05am
Originally posted by Pukka Bundook Pukka Bundook wrote:

Shamu,
 
What you describe regarding how to hold the rifle, (loose right hand) is Exactly what was taught in the manuals in Major Barlow's day.
What He presents, is Not the official way of doing things, and in the book he presents a very good case for why we should alter our technique.
(backed up by him being successful with it as well!)
He did follow the "party line" regarding bolt /trigger manipulation, but had differing ideas on how to improve our scores in other areas, sight picture and such.
If you get a chance, pick up the book and have a read.  it Does help no-end!
 
Best,
Richard.

These old books are all we have that describe shooting techniques of the masters.  My copy is the 5th ed, by Brigadier Barlow.  His Prone position is quite different from what I was taught.  I did not seriously take up competitive shooting until I had moved to the States, and was taught the “USMC way”, with the left elbow under the rifle.  



Note that Barlow describes the right hand grip as “hard””.  He also states “The left hand should not, as many people think, pull the rifle into the shoulder.  That is the job of the right hand.”  

His method for rapid shooting still retains the firm grip on the butt wrist, using the thumb and first finger to operate the bolt in one smooth motion with “a flick of the wrist”.  



This standard of rapid fire (10 rounds in 40 seconds) is twice as fast as the rapid stage in the CMP Games Events in the US (M1, 03 Springfield and Vintage Military bolt rifles).  Though, CMP Rapid Fire clock starts with the rifleman standing, bolt closed on empty chamber, so you must first get in the prone position. 




Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 6:33am
Thanks for attaching these pages from Major Barlow's book, Simon.
 
Re grip;
It only goes to show there is more than one way to win a horse -race.
 
Major Barlow's recommendations re. prone position are very solid advise I'd say, as they keep one much lower to the ground and the triangle formed with arms and chest are Very stable.  No wavering about in this position.
Again though, it all comes down to what we are used to!
 
To paraphrase the good old Peter Hawker;
Can you shoot well in your present prone position?  ..."Yes!"     "Well don't change it!"
Can you shoot well in your present position? ...."No!"    "well by all means try Major Barlow's method!"
 
While you're at it Simon, Could you show his diagrams etc. for the prone triangle?  and how it differs from the "arm under the rifle" method?
 
Thanks again,
 
Richard.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:06am
I have this from "Shoot to live":



-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:18am
He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 7:32am
Some of you “old timers” may remember better than me, but the rank is a Warrant Officer, looks like what is now called a Master Warrant Officer.

Richard, I completely agree with you, there are numerous ways to hold the rifle to get excellent results.  I don’t believe there is one  “right” way.  There are common factors in all methods.

The advantage I have found with placing the left elbow under the rifle is that breathing limits muzzle movement to the vertical direction only.  I use breathing to fine tune the position of the foresight on the aiming mark, exhale until the foresight is aligned, pause and take the shot.  

I’m glad you mentioned this book, I’ve not looked at it in years, and rereading it now picking up on many things he recommends that I have learned the hard way. 




Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.


I could be wrong here.(Once I thot I was wrong - but I was mistaken)
He looks to be a SWO (judging by the badge on his sleeve

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 8:48am
Agreed, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

If you use the "right hand free" method you also have to use the other elbow under the rifle though or you're using a  bipod with one leg folded!

If I'm doing anything other than "Rapid Fire" I use the tripod firing position shown above.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

He sure has a good grip on the forward part of the stock! What rank do you think that lad is? I always wondered why our military chevron's, like Britians, are pointed down unlike the US that are pointed up. I think the US Navy points the same as ours.

It looks like a 'Tate & Lyles" (Warrant Officer's) insignia above a set of good conduct (not rank) chevrons.
Similar to the U.S. "Hershey bar" insignia.

https://www.nam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2017-05/225065_half.jpg

The Good-Conduct stripe was a British Army award for good conduct during service in the Regular Army by an enlisted man. The insignia was a points-up chevron of NCO's lace worn on the lower sleeve of the uniform jacket. It was given to Privates and Lance Corporals for 2, 6, 12, or 18 years' service without being subject to formal discipline

British rank insignia is bigger & worn higher over the bicep, & is pointed down like US rank. We don't have the curved top section like us forces do for tech ranks I think?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: pisco
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 1:28pm
hi i have that book there is some good reading in it


Posted By: RayR
Date Posted: August 14 2020 at 2:29am
Thanks for the compilation of this information.
 
I thought the British Soldiers got a higher pay rate if they passed the " mad minute" range test. Do you know if this was true?
 


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Semper Fi


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: August 14 2020 at 6:34am
That was only part of it. There were other drills as well.
Fully training an expert rifleman could take a couple of years.
Confused
"The classification shoot was shot in several stages shot out to 600 yards, the various stages or serials were laid out in Table B, Appendix II in the Musketry Regulations Pt.1,  these included grouping with 5 rounds at 100 yards, snap shooting with 5 rounds out at 200 yards, two 5 round stages fired slowly with the first at 400 yards from the prone position and another at 300 yards from kneeling.   Then came the so called ‘Mad Minute’ stage fired from prone at a target 300 yards out.   This was to be fired with 5 rounds loaded - 1 in the chamber and 4 in the magazine, the rifleman would then reload with 5-round chargers firing until 60 seconds had elapsed.  The target used for this stage was the Second Class figure target which was a 4 foot screen with a 12 inch high figure silhouette at the centre surrounded by two rings, a 23 inch inner ring and a 36 inch outer ring.   This stage was then followed by three final stages fired from prone out to 500 and 600 yards.

https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/43102565094/the-mad-minute-marksmanship-training-in-the" rel="nofollow - https://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/43102565094/the-mad-minute-marksmanship-training-in-the




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: October 02 2020 at 7:09pm
I was rewatching Peter Jackson's movie "They shall not grow old" and they talked about the Mad Minute. One scene had about a half dozen soldiers prone shooting... one was a southpaw!


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 02 2020 at 8:07pm
I watched Crocodile Dundee 2 last night.  Mick had the No4Mk1 with the thumbhole stock and if you look closely, Sue is holding a P14.


Posted By: WilliamS
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

I was rewatching Peter Jackson's movie "They shall not grow old" and they talked about the Mad Minute. One scene had about a half dozen soldiers prone shooting... one was a southpaw!

That scene stood out to me as well! I would have thought for sure they wouldn't have allowed left-handedness at that point.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 8:46am
Alot of snipers of yore were in fact left handed. Retrained to fire right handed and as such became ambidextrous shooters. It paid off in spades for some.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 3:05pm
Right hand was preferred & encouraged, but we had southpaw shouters in matches in the 1960's.
To a "Rightie" it looked incredibly uncomfortable & clumsy, but for them it worked.
I have a friend thats forced to be cross dominant because of an eye injury to this right eye. He taught himself to shout Southpaw! You should see him a barricade stations! Switch hitter is a valuable skill to gain.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 3:49pm
My dad taught me to shoot ambidextrously. It is a definitive plus when needed. 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 03 2020 at 6:21pm
Absolutely!
The skills of "Rifelry" are being lost.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: smerdon42
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:28am
hey guys it is not an easy skill to shooot left and right handed. I need to get some more practice on it but when I regularly shot pistol with a buddy of mine who is a federal prison officer I taught him how to shoot both hands with pistol rifle and shotgun . He ended up topping his class in shooting left and right handed .as a young country boy we would shoot from motor cycles so hand to learn left handed .


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 5:13am
I wished I had learned to shoot left handed.  I’m left eye dominant and I have to close my left eye to shoot.  My right eye is also much more far sighted. 

One of my Dads shooting friends could shoot ambidextrous, when his right eye got tired in a match, he would just switch sides.  

Rapid fire stages must be difficult left handed!


Posted By: 25-5
Date Posted: October 04 2020 at 1:23pm
Really great thread.
Thanks to Shamu etal.


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For the pikes must be together at the rising of the moon.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 07 2020 at 7:29am
BOTR (Bloke on the Range) gives an interestingly detailed (& Fugly) bit on the rapid fire for the Lee-Enfield.

Almost 20 minutes & IMO worth every one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raI__rimLc&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9raI__rimLc&feature=youtu.be




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SGonger
Date Posted: February 20 2021 at 3:07pm
Seen (witnessed) a few mad minute demonstrations in the 60’s,very impressive to say the least.
Wink



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Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 2:40pm
We had one at a "Frozen Nutz" winter shoot in PA. It on private land & good for 650yds.
We scraped together about a dozen L-E owners who were willing to "dump brass" & schooled them, one other old squaddie & I were the (informal) instructors as we'd been taught by "Old Contemptibles".
Meet "Granfer Charlie", the man who taught me to shoot.


I forget the year but we had some "Arfcomm" guys there too. Afcomm gets a bad rep but these were good companions.
Then, after individual coaching, we did a Full Monty "Mad Minute" for a whole minute!
It was as you say impressive!

Impressive enough the neighbor (who is a raving maniac) called the cops who thought we were firing full auto! (perfectly legal in PA if you have the paperwork.)
It was originally a massed riflemen technique after all.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 4:05pm
A Mad Minute Match would be a lot of fun to add to our Forum Virtual Match but I think with the current shortage of ammunition and components, this is probably ill advised and would not get a lot of support.  

I shot in a M1 Match in January which included a “Rattle Battle” stage, equivalent to the Mad Minute.  No doubt, a line of M1 shooters puts out a hail of serious .30 Cal fire and I would not want to be on the receiving end!




Posted By: SGonger
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

A Mad Minute Match would be a lot of fun to add to our Forum Virtual Match but I think with the current shortage of ammunition and components, this is probably ill advised and would not get a lot of support.  

I shot in a M1 Match in January which included a “Rattle Battle” stage, equivalent to the Mad Minute.  No doubt, a line of M1 shooters puts out a hail of serious .30 Cal fire and I would not want to be on the receiving end!


Howdy Britrifles;Yep it would be & thought about it but ammo wise is was basically no starter,not reloader setup here & $25-30 plus box of boolites well just not good economic’s 🙈🤢😉
Cheer’s nonetheless!😉🍻



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Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨


Posted By: lyman1903
Date Posted: March 01 2021 at 6:49pm
never had the chance to shoot a Rattle Battle, but did watch the State Team at Perry a few times, 
friend is a swing man, and another sometimes coaches, 

they used AR's and the hit count was impressive




Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 7:54am
The thing with a bolt action is that you have to do a lot more in the 2 seconds each round has.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: March 02 2021 at 10:41am
That is for sure Sham.  For me, it’s even harder as I have to roll my head to clear the bolt, not an efficient position for the mad minute.  It’s fine for CMP rapid prone stage with a looooong 80 seconds to fire 10 shots (clock starts with shooter standing with 5 rounds in mag, bolt closed on empty chamber).  

In the M1 “rattle battle” match I shot in January (60 seconds starting in prone position), I took a comfortable pace, not pushing it, and fired 22 rounds, all scoring in the black at 300 yards.  It would not be too difficult to get that up to 30 or even 32 rounds (4 enbloc clips) but I don’t think I could ever get close to that on the LE. 


Posted By: baltimoreed
Date Posted: May 25 2021 at 10:23am
We had out BAMM last Saturday at my cas club. I shot my Krag constabulary [school] rifle before lunch and my remilitarized 1903 Springfield with a 10 rd extended mag after lunch. I shot them both mad minute style, holding onto the bolt which worked great. I like shooting my bolts that way. Hopefully I’ll have an Enfield before too long to play with. We only shoot 10 rd strings, had one rifle miss and 3 revolver misses. A broken revolver on stage 3 knocked me out of first place I think  But we all had a good time. Any day spent at the range is a great day. 

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‘Give’em he!!, Pike’


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 1:33pm
An interesting thread about someone who seems to be disregarded as a myth by some self appointed experts on Youtube and held as a demi God by others! 

I often think the idea of the Mad Minute is misinterpreted by some. It was never part of the training of a soldier other than the 15 round rapid to be shot in 60 seconds; instead it firmly belongs in Skill at Arms demonstrations of the day and military tattoos which were very popular at the turn of the century when the new "short" rifle was still something of a newcomer.

Alfred Snoxall did exist and was first mentioned in print by Major C.H.B. Pridham (Duke of Wellington's Regiment) writing in his book, Superiority of Fire (1945) along with other notable marksman such as Sgt Major Jesse Wallingford who was very much better known on the Bisley "shooting circuit" of the day. 
I rather think Wallingford was happy in the limelight whereas Snoxall from the little I have discovered about him appears to have joined the army, done a splendid job and left in a sea of manpower all of whom were looking for jobs after the Great War.
One snippet my wife discovered for me was written by one of his teachers in her diary who caught him stealing apples from her garden aged eleven!   

Major Pridham was an officer instructor at the school of Musketry in Hythe at the same time that Snoxall was there, hence the mention in the book which gives some concrete providence to the story some 25 years after they last worked together. 


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Mick


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 2:48pm
Mick;
Are you anywhere near Westminster?

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

Mick;
Are you anywhere near Westminster?

Westminster London?

No south of London, about 80 miles away but close to Southampton. 
I'm still being moderated so you might have to wait for this reply! 


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Mick


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 3:01pm
Westminster must cover alot of real estate. My good friend is in Westminster, Wiltshire..I liked the place when I was there, alot. (But they have a peculiar habit of driving on the wrong side of the road!)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 3:12pm
Warminster not Westminster which is the seat of government power in the UK and the name you probably keep hearing on news reports! 

Not far away (30 miles) and the home of the School of Infantry situated at the west side of Salisbury Plain, also home to the School of Infantry small arms museum. 



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Mick


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

I liked the place when I was there, alot. (But they have a peculiar habit of driving on the wrong side of the road!)

Hoadie, oddly enough I had the same feeling last time I was over the pond! 


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Mick


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 3:48pm
Well, Frank (who lives in Westminster - Wiltshire) took me to some big Infantry base near his place. He's practically on the salisbury plain..& he's close to Stonehenge.
Quite a place..wish I had more time (& $) to explore with over there.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: baltimoreed
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 3:55pm
Before my wife got too ill to travel I had hoped we could get to Britain and Wales. We did get to Ireland before she fell apart. It was a marvelous trip with my best friend and his wife. He did all the driving as it was their 4th trip to Ireland. 

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‘Give’em he!!, Pike’


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 5:02pm
In '87 out rugby club did a two week your if England and Wales. Five games with local squads. Got the s#+t kicked out of us in Wales. Also got to watch a test match at Twickenham between England and France. A little different crowd than at a Canadian NHL hockey game!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 5:04pm
I must admit, these guys were exceptional!  Mick, do you know the diameter of the Inner score ring of the target they used?  

This makes our US CMP Match rapid fire stages seem incredibly slow! In the vintage matches, Rapid Fire is 10 rounds in 80 seconds.  The time starts with the shooter standing and 5 rounds in the magazine.  So some time is used up to drop down into the prone position.  Then recharge the magazine after the first five rounds are fired.  It really is plenty of time to make deliberate shots.  Sometimes my rapid fire stage scores are better then slow fire, which is single shot only, requiring the rifle to be taken off the shoulder for each shot, and that breaks your concentration and natural point of aim. 

Modern Service Rifle CMP matches have a 60 second sitting rapid fire and 70 second prone rapid fire stages. 



Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 9:06am
Geoff it's believed Snoxall and the others all shot on the Second Class figure target which has an inner of 24" inches. 
Up until about 20 years ago we could shoot the Mad Minute in competition at Bisley but a bullet was discovered lodged in a garage roof near the range and it was the perfect excuse to play the "Health & Safety" card and stop the shoot. They (NRA) also thought some of the smaller cadets couldn't handle the No.4 safely during the Mad Minute practice apparently.

I have since discovered that the bullet in the garage roof was 7mm and believed to have come from the running deer range, heaven forbid the truth should get out! 

My best back in the day was 20 rounds although I usually delivered 19 getting them all on, some of the lads were regularly doing 25 and getting them all on the target which in those days was a turning figure target with an 8"?? strip down the middle scoring 5 and 4 elsewhere on the target.


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Mick


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 12:14pm

I grew up not far from Warminster, "Brizzle".

passed through it many time going to Bisley & Hazlemere. back in the 70's.


I'm going to have to go digging for it but I have an old musketry manual that shows a circular course, with many, varied stations spaced out about equally, round it. Basically you ran from the stations & did a drill at each one as you came to it, running various bayonet engagements, ranging & sighting exercises & at one point the live firing sections. you shot outwards from the circle. IIRC it was slow, timed & snap shooting scattered about from the "sides" & front to a distant berm.

Each of the dozen or so “stops” was labeled for the particular exercise to be performed there. One was labeled as the “exercise 22”. The “official” name for the mad minute.

If you look earlier in this thread there's an image & a set of dimensions for the target mentioned.





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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 12:20pm
Honkytonk, did you match against "Glynneath RFC" in South Wales?
That was my old club & the site of the assault course & zip line through the trees going up the hill & back over the lake!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 12:32pm
Holding an 8 minute group in a "flat out" rate of rapid fire is indeed exceptional skill (all shots within the 24 inch inner at 300 yards).   Some shooters struggle to get an 8 minute group in prone slow fire!  

Most shooters of vintage bolt action rifles on this side of the pond do well to hold 3 to 4 MOA in the ten shot 80 second rapid stage.  

  


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Holding an 8 minute group in a "flat out" rate of rapid fire is indeed exceptional skill (all shots within the 24 inch inner at 300 yards).   Some shooters struggle to get an 8 minute group in prone slow fire!   

I'b better qualify this; the Mad Minute we did before they stopped the practise was at 200x yards which is the distance most of the snap & rapid stuff is done, everything else tends to be 500x & 600X. 




-------------
Mick


Posted By: rb67mustang
Date Posted: October 14 2022 at 7:39am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Every now & then the topic of the "real" Mad Minute comes up. There are U-tube videos, countless wittering posts & so on, but the rather sad truth is that most of the information on it is lost, missing or was simply passed down by word of mouth a bit like tribal histories.

FWIW here's everything I've been able to find, dig up or read up on it. Enjoy!

“Mad minute” was a term used by British riflemen during training to describe scoring 15 hits onto a target at 300 yd (274.3 m) within one minute using a bolt-action rifle. It was not uncommon during the First World War for riflemen to greatly exceed this score. Many riflemen could average 30+ shots, while the record, set in 1914 by Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall was 38 hits.

[ Ian V. Hogg, The Encyclopedia of Weaponry, Sterling Publishing, New York 2006.]

 

The magazine and repeating bolt action of the Lee Enfield, adopted at the very dawn of the 20th century, allowed for an unprecedented volume of fire. The fast-operating Lee bolt-action and large magazine capacity enabled a well-trained rifleman to perform the "Mad minute" firing 20 to 30 aimed rounds in 60 seconds, making the Lee-Enfield the fastest military bolt-action rifle of the day. The Lee-Enfield Resource website has a video of 15 rounds in one minute, aimed, but no reference to the methodology & techniques used originally. It was not uncommon during the First World War for British Empire servicemen to beat this record! On average a rifleman could fire twenty-five shots, and some could even make it to forty shots.”

 

Supposedly there is a formal “Mad Minute reenactment” annually in the U.K.

During the 'mad minute' British riflemen were required to hit a target 300 meters away, with at least fifteen rounds fired in sixty seconds; one round every four seconds. A modern-day, semi-trained guerrilla soldier with a semi, or fully automatic assault rifle can easily top that, although not with the same accuracy, but the Lee-Enfield was a bolt action rifle, requiring the soldier to rotate and cycle a bolt with his hand between each shot. The rifle fired the powerful .303 British cartridge, which had a hefty recoil, and the magazine could only hold ten rounds, requiring several reloads during the minute.

Reloading a bolt-action rifle of the time involved sliding bullets from 5-round Chargers (stripper clips) down into the magazine from above. The Lee Enfield required two five-round clips, and debate still rages as to the best method for ensuring high-speed fire; polishing the clip guides, flipping the bolt with the thumb and forefinger of the right hand whilst firing with the middle finger, or even reloading with the Lee-Enfield's detachable magazine (not usually recommended due to manufacturing imperfections which could cause each magazine to be of a slightly different size).

The mad minute turned out to be extremely useful in the early stages of the Great War, when the lightly-armed British Expeditionary Force was on the defensive; the BEF's soldiers could put up a tremendous, murderous volume of fire against advancing close-formation German troops, many of whom reported that they were facing machine-guns. The upper limits of aimed fire in the mad minute were 30-35 rounds per minute, slightly more than one round every two seconds, including the time taken to cycle the bolt and stuff several clips into the rifle.

Here is probably the best-documented methodology available, but most of the documents & records from the period are destroyed so even this is speculative! Remember this was a "set up" World Record attempt, so there was a lot of manipulation & setup involved!

Targets

On military ranges, where most full-bore shoots take place, targets are chosen according to the distance and course of fire. The most commonly used target is known as a Figure 11. This is 44 inches high by 17 inches wide and depicts a charging infantry soldier.

The drill happened during WW1 so we can assume it was done from a trench standing with the rifle supported on a sandbag. A bench & bag is a reasonable substitute if you don't feel like digging a bloody great hole in the range firing line!

Load up at least 8 chargers with 5 rounds each!

The rifle is not slung & (this is vital) the buttstock never leaves the shoulder. Resist the temptation to "look at the bullets going in". Use tension from the left forearm to keep the buttplate in position firmly pressed into the shoulder pocket throughout. Try to keep the muzzle pointed at the bullseye as well, this is why the positioning setup is so important, the rifle should recover from recoil almost naturally if you do it right.

The bolt operation is done by butting the bolt knob in the bent right hand's "trigger finger" & held in place by the right thumb. That finger/thumb never leave the bolt handle, except when grabbing another loaded charger from the right front of the shooter's position. The second finger is used for the trigger operation exclusively. If you get it set up just right (which needs practice) you'll find as the bolt is "whipped sharply" into the closed & locked position the second finger presses the trigger without you doing anything except keeping it rigid. This takes a bit of practice but is almost instinctive when you get it down pat.

 

Now you're set up here's the actual firing drill.

 

Get prone or benched & rested & set up position so you naturally point at the life sized silhouette target at 300yds. (You can use a reduced size one at 100yds if you like.)

LOAD 11 rounds. (2 chargers & one "up the spout").

Fire 6 rounds as quickly as you can re-acquire the target. Time (1 Minute) starts here at the sound of the first shot.

Breathe!

You have fired 6 rounds & have 5 rounds left, DO NOT close the bolt on round #7, just whack in a charger with 5 more rounds & snap the bolt forward to eject the empty clip.

You have 10 rounds loaded.

Fire 6 rounds as quickly as you can re-acquire the target.

Breathe.

Keep repeating the "fire 6, charge 5" until either the minute is up or you run out of bullets after 38 rounds fired! Once you’ve fully emptied the magazine (assuming you’re still going) just dump in 5-round chargers & fire them off to complete the one minute time frame.

If you fire 38 congratulations you beat Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall’s World Record! Most can fire 15~20 aimed shots in a minute with just a day or two's practice, but the world record set in 1914 was 38!

Some rules for the course:

From Small Arms Training Volume No1, pamphlet No1.

No sling is permitted.

Pp28, 27, I

No sighting shots permitted

Pp28, 27, ii

Misfires. If the cap is proven struck round replaced & time to use allowed.

Pp28, 27, iv(a)

Forfeiture of rounds: Failure to fire in time is scored as “miss”

Pp28, 27, v

Firing after time allotted. Highest possible score for round is deducted.

Pp28, 27, vi

 

“Rested” is a sandbag supporting the forearm & wrist, no contact with weapon.

Pp28, 28, (a).

Now I'm not claiming this is the perfect dead nutz on 100% accurate "Manual of Arms" for the Mad Minute, but if anyone wants to try it its a good starting point culled from several sources.

Thanks for sharing this detailed information about the "Mad Minute." When I knew I had found my first Enfield Rifle, even before I paid for it; I watched as many videos with the N05 I found on YouTube. That's when I heard Ian of Forgotten Weapons speak of the "Mad Minute." Sadly, the outdoor 100 yard range I use doesn't allow rapid fire, and the indoor range I use during the winter is only 30 yards in length and they also don't like rapid fire unless they know you well and that you're safe & qualified to do so.


Posted By: rb67mustang
Date Posted: October 14 2022 at 7:53am
Originally posted by Von Gruff Von Gruff wrote:

This is a chap on another forum I visit who has done a video on the mad minute. Rob is a guy who is as authentic in everything he does so I would expect this is very close to the original method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IjG1SUh5ak
 
This is his second attempt.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DhjUrqH88s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DhjUrqH88s

Thanks for sharing both of Rob's "Mad Minute" videos. The second video is close to what Shamu shared with us.


Posted By: rb67mustang
Date Posted: October 14 2022 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Pukka Bundook Pukka Bundook wrote:

Very good Shamu,
 
Only one point I want to bring up;
 
In the book, "The Elements of Rifle Shooting" by Major J.A. Barlow, (West Yorkshire Reg't)
 
 
Major Barlow teaches rapid fire  using the normal or index finger to fire the rifle.  He states that 30 to 35 aimed shots can be got off in one minute, in this manner. 
 
I believe that "holding the bolt" is a newer idea, not taught at this time, as it was viewed as most important to renew the vise-like grip with the right hand for accuracy's sake.
Major Barlow insisted  that the thumb must wrap around the grip in the usual manner.
 
So! If we get good at doing it with the "short-cuts", we can then humble ourselves and try it as it was taught by the good Major, between 1932 and 1941.  (These dates are the dates of editions of his book)
 
Major Barlow was no theorist, being winner of the Army Championship, 1930 & 31, The King's Medal, 1930,
Queen Mary's Prize, 1924, King's prize  1934 & '38.
Also a member of the Army Rifle V111, in 1924, 1926, to 1934, 1936 to 1939.
 
Well worth a read, In fact, worth it's weight in gold I would say. Not too hard to find either!
 
Best,
Richard.
 

Thanks for mentioning this book, Richard! I did a quick search and found it on Evil-bay and it was in the US (less S&H), so i sanpped it up!!! 


Posted By: rb67mustang
Date Posted: October 14 2022 at 10:27am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I'm not sure of the bolt handling as practiced officially. Sometimes "Field Expedient Techniques" are adopted by the squaddies even though it may not be "the way God & The RSM did it, the right way".
I do remember my grandfather (who was an RSM in the 13th Gloucesters), teaching me two things. Firstly you never "palm the bolt" with the Lee Enfield, that's a Mauser/P14 technique that will get the ball of your thumb sliced neatly by the rear sight edge, & secondly to use the middle finger in rapid fire ONLY. You still used the crooked index finger & thumb bolt knob grip, but "unhooked" it to fire in slow & timed fire.
Incidentally we were taught specifically to NOT grip the wrist of the stock at all firmly! We were taught to use the Left hand & arm to grasp the forend & pull it tightly into the shoulder pocket to position & sight. One exercise was to intentionally release the right hand completely (holding it up so the instructor could see it was away from the stock) while checking our Point Of Aim hadn't changed.

 

WOW!!! There's some very Good & Free teaching in this thread. Thanks for sharing your experience, Shamu.


Posted By: rb67mustang
Date Posted: October 14 2022 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

His name was "Will"!
Confused
"31 rounds,
rapid fire,
in your own time,
FIRE AT WILL"
Censored
(Actually I have no idea, sorry)

OMG!!!LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here lies, William, shot 31 times in 1 minute, May he RIP.


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: October 22 2022 at 2:02pm


Apologies I thought this was a new post about the mad minute to which I've already posted earlier. 






-------------
Mick


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: October 22 2022 at 5:00pm
Yes, an old thread, but an interesting topic.  The LE is without question the fasted bolt rifle of it’s time, maybe still the fastest bolt action service rifle of all time. 

We should keep in mind though that these achievements by pre WWI instructors are not at all typical of the skills of the soldiers sent into battle, particularly as the war progressed and new recruits were pressed into service as replacements.   This is where the US had an advantage with the M1, a recruit becomes proficient with well aimed rapid fire with an auto loading rifle much faster than with a bolt rifle.  There is a reason that present day infantry don’t carry a bolt action service rifle. 

I’ve done a lot of shooting with both the M1 and No. 4 and I can’t achieve the same rate of well aimed fire (under 4 MOA) with these two rifles.  I could shoot the 15 shots in 60 seconds with my No. 4, but probably would not hold 4 MOA with it.  Pretty easy to shoot three 8 round clips with the M1 in 60 seconds. 

By the way, I would want to practice this “Mad Minute” exercise much, it’s a definite barrel burner.  

I suppose guys like Snoxall might find the M1 gas system too slow to operate and would prefer a bolt action rifle …Pinch


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: October 22 2022 at 5:06pm
There's a "Zombie Shoot Mad Minute Video" out there.
Is shot standing, unsupported & at about 35 Yds.
You have to stoop to the dirt to pick up a charger & of course dismount to do it.
Now I get its a fun shoot, rather than a Historical re-enactment, but the loading, gun-handling in general & short stroking because of rim jams is horrible.
If you're gong to do a "Mad Minute Drill"
I'd hope for much better!


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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