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Hong Kong

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Off Topic
Forum Name: Military Talk
Forum Description: Feel free to talk about anything military related.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8705
Printed Date: August 08 2020 at 1:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Hong Kong
Posted By: Honkytonk
Subject: Hong Kong
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:44am
I worked with a buddy who retired about two years before me. He's currently about 70 yrs old. His dad, now deceased, was in the military and stationed in Hong Kong at the beginning of war. He was lucky(?) And spent the rest of the war in a Japanese POW camp. I asked buddy if he ever talked about his experiences. Buddy pondered for a minute, then said no, but that his dad didn't like rice.



Replies:
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 8:15am
Must've been in the Winnipeg rifles

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 8:48am
God Bless them all.



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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 12:35pm
Amen to that! Little training, no support... fought like veterans! While the outcome was inevitable, I believe we may have bloodied their nose a bit!


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Amen to that! Little training, no support... fought like veterans! While the outcome was inevitable, I believe we may have bloodied their nose a bit!


I think they kicked them in the shorts and if they had support they would have kicked them all way back to Japan.

My Father has a American Born Canadian and had no love for the Japs. He know what happen and was out to return actions.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 2:22pm
There was a few stories about that episode. Turns out that Churchill & the Cdn PM knew they would be sacrificed. (Not very cricket there!)
There was a VC or two issued - obviously posthumously.
And a dog..the mascot was also picking up Japaneese grenades & returning them..then skedaddling, until one went off in his mouth before he could drop it.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 2:33pm
Governments killing their good people.

Big governments sucks.



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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 3:19pm
..its all about political appearance.
Like Pearl Harbour..U.S. needed an "incident" to get them into the 2nd twirl at war. To do it - even tho it would have been the "right thing" to do - without the American population onside would have been political suicide. So, sacrifice the lads @ Pearl, & everyone is "onside".
Twas the same with Hong Kong. That same scenario has been repeated so many times in so many places. The names change..but not the results.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 3:21pm
Sad but true.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 3:22pm
In my humble opinion, I truly believe times were different then. Two world wars in 30 years? I can't imagine the weight of those decisions to sacrifice brave soldiers for the final end result didn't haunt the leaders of the free world to their graves. Dieppe, Hong Kong, Pearl Harbour. Many, many more... I like to think these fallen heroes were the toughest SOB's their countries had to offer at the time...


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:15pm
Well - we now know that Dieppe wasn't the "failure" that it has always been considered. The Germans knew they were coming..it was planned that way. But - unknown to the world til recent, there was a British commando team that was tasked to enter the German naval HQ there to obtain an enigma machine.(The hotel still stands there.)Meanwhile, just 200 yds off the coast was a British destroyer with a man waiting to take delivery of it(Intrepid). The machine wasn't there, so they withdrew & no-one on our side was any the wiser.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:17pm
BTW: Not many realize that approx. 200 American Marines joined in on that "raid"

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 6:55pm
I watched a show on the Dieppe raid by Canadian military historian David O'Keefe. It is very well researched, and informs the public after so many years the intent of the raid. Very informative and makes me proud to be Canadian!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 18 2018 at 7:31pm
the pacific was not wellsupported in the beginning because of the more crucial/strategic atlantic front , i think the plan was in motion from the beginning but the logistics were beyond some capabilities at the time so development had to occur , 

the sacrifices of those in the pacific are unforgivable but i think unavoidable at that time with the current technology and capabilities , we more than made up in the end but the personal losses and suffering we have to acknowledge , its why i remember - i was raised with it , i almost never heard of the european war growing up , except in school , now even that is lost , 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 3:25am
Prior to America's entry into the 2nd whirl at war, it was decided that a "holding action" in the Pacific would be taken, until the European theatre could be stabilized. (Remember-Britain was at her rope's end). Once that had been realized, America came down the Pacific road with everything she had...glad I wasn`t there.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 19 2018 at 7:36pm
yes , that was how i was educated as well , i agree with the plan as i have the vission of hind site but i think those on corrigador might have asked for a little more , there were a lot of casualties on the batan march and the philipenes sufferd , austrailia was in their sights , 


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 20 2018 at 4:58am
Yes,,it was precarious for the Aussies - they even got bombed a few times. (You should see the movie KOKODA..Allan - Shotgun Bill - sent me a copy of it. I don't think it was ever released Stateside).
It was a very nearly run thing, to be sure.
There was "death March" in Europe, as well.(Thomas Bunion R.N RIP) was a survivor of it.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: SherwoodZ
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 7:01am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

I watched a show on the Dieppe raid by Canadian military historian David O'Keefe. It is very well researched, and informs the public after so many years the intent of the raid. Very informative and makes me proud to be Canadian!


I watched the same thing the other day, Honkytonk. O'Keefe is a brilliant guy. I thought I knew stuff about the Dieppe raid but I soon realized that I didn't know jack. I wish there was more stuff like that on TV.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 3:57pm
Agree. He has several shows about Canada from the trenches of WW1 to the Garrison of Hong Kong. Check him out. Very informative, very Canadian. I believe he still is a reserve officer. Myself, I went to our local reserve Depot to inquire about joining up. My pop was a vet. I didn't follow that course, as I got a job in the fertilizer industry for 34 yrs but thought now retired and in decent shape, give it a whirl. I was told at 57 yrs old, while no age discrimination, my dreams of donning the beret were probably not gonna happen. Bummed...


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 4:44pm
apparently they wont take you after 45

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 5:14pm
Just tell them you are tall for your age.

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 8:03pm
As the recruiter said, and I agree (although disappointed) they invest a lot of $$ in a new recruit and like to get a good return (years of service) for the investment. Can't really argue with the logic...


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: January 21 2018 at 8:42pm
hey , some of us that worked for 40 plus years are just getting started on our second/third carreers we have no intent of not giving the sergvice they want i will work to 70 god willing and the creek dont rise or perhaps beyond that if my mind is intact , 

i have a lot better education , far more experience and im a lot smarter than most doing what im doing these days , im having fun doing it and the company is profiting from my efforts , 

dont short change those over 50 er OK 60 , we got lots to offer , just sayin , 

besides that we are irritable and can be deadly when provoked and that aint that hard these days LOL


Posted By: Macd
Date Posted: February 08 2018 at 11:40am
Full pack route marches, field rations, sleeping sitting up for a few hours a day, wet, dirty, bouncing around in an APC, long hours of boredom, fording cold rivers, laying in tall grass surrounded by biting insects, blisters, cuts, scrape, bruises and assorted aches, pains, sprains and strains, sand in your face, rain down your neck and snow friggin everywhere. Then there is the other side trying to blow your brains out or separate you into your constituent parts. No life like it eh but a young persons burden.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 08 2018 at 2:25pm
"Full pack route marches, field rations, sleeping sitting up for a few hours a day, wet, dirty, bouncing around in an APC, long hours of boredom, fording cold rivers, laying in tall grass surrounded by biting insects, blisters, cuts, scrape, bruises and assorted aches, pains, sprains and strains, sand in your face, rain down your neck and snow friggin everywhere".
Wow I had a problem with slow Room Service once, but I went Air Force, or course.
Star


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 08 2018 at 3:30pm
If they would have me, knowing I would be answering to and obeying orders from a youngster that probably works at 7-11 in his full time job, I would do it in a second. At 57, I've worked hard to get to where I am. I'm retired now, but always felt there was something missing. Hardships in the field? Please! I've been married for 37 years and have 30 year old twin girls. Some wood ticks, wet weather, cuts and scrapes? Heaven!! To have said I served Canada in uniform?...Priceless...


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 12:52am
I understand the Canadians were thrown in at the deep end in Hong Kong.
Arrived with hardly any equipment, in fact a whole ship load of gear for the troops got as far as Manila in the Phillipines and never got to Hong Kong.
Shipment included a heap of bren gun carriers (universal carriers). The Americans took them on as they has only a few armoured cars and some M1 half tracks in the Phillipines. US troops were a bit dismayed to see these tiny and tinny little vehicles ! but needs must, the japs were litterally on their door step.
In any case the Candians were never going to need the bren gun carriers in the end, not much need for them in Hong Kong.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 5:50am
Yes..sad part is..Churchill knew the Winnipeg Rifles et al were going to be fodder..but they had to show strength somehow.
2nd mistake was everyone underestimated the drive & tenacity of the Japanese troops.

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Marco1010
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 2:11pm
Sad really as the Allies had seen how the Japanese had operated in China against the Nationalists, so knew what they were in for, but were prepared to thow away the troops in the asia pacific region on a gamble for time. And they lost the gamble. Down here in NZ we had already thrown away half our airforce into the battle to save Singapore. While back home the cupboard was almost bare of equipment and troops. If you want to see deperation look at the Charlton Automatic rifle and the Semple tank they came up with to fill the gaps.
Australia was not much better either.
If the Japanese had know how precarious the situation was they could have really pushed through. Battles of the Coral Sea, Guadalcanal, Milne Bay and Kokoda were the one in a hundred chance oportunities to turn the tide.

terrible sacrifice of men. And those who survived carried the scars physically and mentally afterwards.
My father used to work with men who had survived the Burma Railway as POW, they were hard men who drank hard, hated the japs with a vengance and only rarely spoke of their experiences. They never left food on a plate, always smoked a cigarette down to the last grains of tobacco.


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 2:32pm
God Rest Them all!

Without these Men the world would be a different p!ace today.


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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 2:58pm
Yeah...& methinks it's about to become a "different" place again! I fear that there is going to be a terrible wailing & gnashing of teeth!!(& I'm not talkin about Paddy's house!).
I think the only way out of this mess will be a 3rd twirl at war

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 3:22pm
More of the big bang theory!

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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 3:24pm
Before I retired from the fertilizer industry, I had a Panel Operator working for me. He was about 10 years older than me, making hm about 70 now. He was originally from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. His Dad was a WWII veteran. Was captured in Hong Kong after a brief but brutal (and futile) defense of that island. He was lucky. Spent five years in a Japanese POW camp. I asked my guy if his Dad ever talked about his experiences. He said his Pop only spoke once of his war time learnings. Apparently he said, and I quote... "Never trust the yellow man, and to this day, I can't eat rice." 
History does have a way of repeating itself.



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