SMLE WW1 bayonet
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Bayonets
Forum Description: General discussion about bayonets for the Enfield rifles
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8842
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 6:03pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: SMLE WW1 bayonet
Posted By: sc-em
Subject: SMLE WW1 bayonet
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 5:36am
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Hi, Now I am determined to get a WW1 SMLE from 1915/16 I would like to be looking out for the correct bayonet. Being new to this whole game, excuse me if the answer is obvious, but are these generally date stamped with or without regimental markings?
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Replies:
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 6:14am
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IIRC its maker & date. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 7:31am
| I may as well just email you. Lol. You seem to answer my every post. |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 7:37am
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I have been offered this but there is no point if it is not contemporary to the SMLE I am after. WW1 British 1907 Pattern sword bayonet and leather scabbard with pre-1915 lack of oiling hole to pommel. Overall length 22.1/2in., blade length 17in. Blade to shiny grey patina signs of sharpening and also with many inspection marks, stamped with Kings crown, 1907 and the rare maker "Chapman". Push buttton muzzle release works well with cross-guard and pommel to dark grey/ brown patina but without oil hole to pommel indicating pre-1915 manufacture. The wooden grips are complete and in good condition with a stamped inspection mark to one side. The dark brown leather scabbard has also got traces of a stamped inspection mark, the bottom steel chape and throat chape are to a speckled dark brown/ grey patina, the throat chape with an inspection stamp below the pre 1916 frog button. The whole in very good overall condition commensurate with age
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 18 2018 at 12:28pm
Being retired I just lurk here waiting for prey! Bayonets aren't really my strong point (excuse the pun). ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 4:27am
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Sounds like a good bayonet to go for, if the price is right. As with many items of kit; bayonet's issued would not necessarily be the same date as the rifle; So as long as it's the correct type and era; should be OK. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 8:55am
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Wait! "Signs of sharpening"? ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 10:14am
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I will post some photos for your perusal and the price is about £195 as it ia Chapman. ALthough, I have no idea whether this prce is right or not.
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Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 11:36am
  
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:00pm
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At that price I'd want it without the file marks on the blade. Why not look for a cheaper Sanderson or Wilkinson bayonet. They are more common so you'll probably find one in better condition for less money. This is a Sanderson from 1917.  ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 19 2018 at 12:07pm
| Yes, you are probably right. I would really like one dated 1915 and it doesn't need to be a Chapman, but in good nick. The sharpening efforts are a bit of a bodge then?I need to keep looking, unless someone on this forum has one for sale. Lol |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 20 2018 at 4:12pm
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first off , yes , its 'correct' for the SMLE you are seeking , the scabbard is also correct for that time , second , it actually looks pretty nice if as said above price is fair , third , while chapman is one of the early makers , its not all that "rare" , i can give you a rundown of the makers and counts of production , but i would not steer you toward another for 'rarity' unless you had a really special rifle of some sort and were looking to get in deep , that one is a fine example for WWI , the four to the right are all P1907 , oldest is the left - 1910 Mole Hookie , then 1915 EFD without clearing hole , then 1917 Chapman with clearing hole , and last 1942 OA with period replacement SLAZ scales , the two on the left are a P1888 for the older long lees , this will not fit the SMLE , then P1903 - this one will fit the SMLE but is correct for the earlier mkI series by date era  |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 21 2018 at 2:35pm
| Wow. That's some collection you have there. Is that the norm state side? |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 21 2018 at 3:03pm
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i cannot speak for norm , i still have some holes in what i would like to have - i like the idea of getting as close to one of each as possible , but that is most likely out of the question , too many too hard to find and way too little time left iin life , these are an assortment of the older ones , the other side of the cabinet had the P1853 , martini , snyder with their bayonets as well as the P1914/M1917s with their bayonets , and my cooey trainer , i lost that photo in photobucket crash , i lost my display case photos of the latter no 4s & no 5 as well , separate cabinet , |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 22 2018 at 6:15am
Standard Length Pattern 1907 Bayonets: Manufacturers Markings. |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 22 2018 at 1:09pm
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My current older guns are my 1790s Brown Bess with musket and 1880s Snider Enfield, again with bayonet. The LE is just next on my list, followed by a Martini Henry. Nice photos of the differing bayonet manufacturers.
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 22 2018 at 6:40pm
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Holy Snappin Sheep Dip!! Terrylee do you have all those pointy bits? ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 22 2018 at 7:18pm
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ahhh , that brown bess has been illusive on my list as well as a nice lee metford and a long lee 22cal trainer , along with the HAK no 2 revolver and some earlier ones ive been looking for , its always fun to talk about them and stir the pot , maybe ill get lucky and find the ones i want ,
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 23 2018 at 1:58am
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Hoadie, yes, I do collect Pattern '07s by the maker. When a collector is involved in a field where there is virtually no physical difference from one example to another, it is necessary to find some distinguishing feature to maintain interest! Fortunately, where I come from there used to be a wide range available, and only two of the bayonets in the series had to be imported. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 23 2018 at 6:29pm
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terrylee is a true blade collector , his items are excellent , if one was interested in a certain makers products i will always refer to him , and a couple others i know , but for us general collectors his insight to a certain item is most valuable as we only aquire 'one' of what we seek and there are so many available these days of the internet , he has depicted what i alluded to regarding the many makers , the production numbers might make some more desirable than others to a blade collector but for us that collect to match the rifles we own its really fun to get the input of the "one" we found , that is a great array of P1907s , i would love to find a nice VICKERS , and a .........oh well , we can dream ,
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Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 24 2018 at 1:18am
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That is certainly a fantastic array of bayonets. Interesting that so many could be sourced in S. Africa. I have probably not seen enough examples to know whether the one offered is of a good quality and price. I don't need it to be anything special (at the moment - like my Brown Bess with all matching parts) but if there is a modicum of additional interest with Chapman as the maker, then may be it is worth a punt.
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 24 2018 at 4:56am
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Thanks for those kind words, A Square. Of course, whether they are justified is another matter! One of the things I have noticed over the years concerning the maker-availability of '07s, irrespective of number produced, is that scarcity frequently depends upon where the collector is based. For example, the Vickers. While "rare" in most countries, I would judge as no more than "unusual" in South Africa. In fact, I cannot offhand think of any serious local collector who has not at least one in his collection. I here suspect that an early British shipment to South Africa may have coincided with a delivery by the Vickers Company. Conversely, I had such difficulty in finding a "Smiling Tiger" and a 17" Ishapore locally that I resorted to importation. The relative ease of sourcing and reasonable prices charged was an eye-opener! Ironically, amongst the rarest of the '07s in South Africa are now those are those which were locally produced during WW II by the Associated engineers Co. and the S.A. Railways. Although archival records indicate that 14,000 were ordered, they also show that the orders were cancelled due to the arrival of a shipment from Australia. Of the 2,450 completed I guess that the vast majority were later scrapped unissued due to their rough finish which compared to imports left much to be desired! |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 24 2018 at 10:22am
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I never ceased to be amazed by the knowledge of you chaps on these forums. I wish I had the dedication to do the research that is involved to find out the info you seem to have at your finger tips. What are your thoughts on the fact the one I am looking at has had a sharpen in the past? I guess a squaddy may well just have sat there trying to put an edge on his bayonet.
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 24 2018 at 11:52am
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Unfortunately, the sharpening of an '07 is most unlikely to have taken place during its service life and will certainly reduce its collectors' value. Under the circumstances I'd be inclined to give that Chapman a miss and as Zed suggested look out for a Snnderson or Wilkinson. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 24 2018 at 8:34pm
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i agree , as a colector it would detract enough to pass , but with the reservation that what little i saw did not detract that much from an accumulators point of view , it was not excessine in the photo to me , if its to be an accessory to the rifle without its own intrinsic value as a key element [as mine are] i would make an offer on it , both of those other options would be easy to find i think , but i would not get too hung up on the manufacturer as long as its dated correctly for your needs ,
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Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 26 2018 at 11:56am
| Maybe I shall see if there is any movement on price and take it from there. It isn't an essential item, but if the price is right!! Whatever that is in the UK. Therein lies the problem....values. |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 29 2018 at 11:54pm
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I have found this chap who sells bayonets in the UK (coincidentally the same place I am getting my Skennerton book from) He has a couple of bayonets, all around the same price and less than the Chapman I was looking at. A thought occurred when reading a description of one of them. Should they have the quillon or not. It seems this particular one had it removed. If anybody would be so kind as to take pass an experience eye over his wares, I may plumb for one, as they seem reasonable. I believe they would all be appropriate for an SMLE of 1915/16 https://www.militaria.co.uk/store/Great-Britain-and-Empire-c26618158" rel="nofollow - https://www.militaria.co.uk/store/Great-Britain-and-Empire-c26618158
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 30 2018 at 2:58am
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I thought that the "quillion" was only found on Aussie bayos. (I could be wrong, tho. Once before I thought I was wrong - but I was mistaken) ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: March 30 2018 at 3:32am
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The original design of the Pat.1907, irrespective of manufacturer, included the hooked quillon. This was eliminated just before the First World War and most of the existing bayonets later had them removed when reconditioned. Surviving complete "Hookies" are worth a lot of money! As mentioned earlier in this thread, the dates of an SMLE and its bayonet do not necessarily correspond. On this basis any of Tenniswood's P.'07s would be suitable. However, if you are committed to matching dates, my first choice would be the 1915 Enfield - most particularly, if the SMLE itself was manufactured by Enfield, as could be the case. |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: March 30 2018 at 4:21am
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I have bought stuff from Mr Tenniswood's shop in Colchester.Althhough not recently. He has some great stuff and is very helpful. Definitely knows his stuff! I have not shopped on-line; but would expect the same service. He has the Ian Skennerton books on the shelf too. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: March 30 2018 at 9:19am
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He has certainly been very quick to respond with queries over the Skennerton book, as he is down as the UK supplier on Skennerton's own site. I will ask for some additional info about the 1915 Enfield.
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 30 2018 at 8:11pm
| the quillon was the original design - patterned after the japanese bayonets , it was discontinued before WWI and many were cut off to bring them to standard , while a very desireable bayonet to own [no they were not exclusively aussie , mine is a mole , british made, should be third from the left in my photo] they are very expensive if real and not neccessarily in the era you desire , there are lots of fakes out there and the prices are outrageous for a fake , a 1915 bayonet will not have a quillon , |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: April 09 2018 at 8:08am
Well, I am pleased to say i am now the owner of the Skennerton book and the Enfield bayonet. See photos attached. I trust you guys will agree the marking are accurate to the description. I have no reason to doubt the chap,   
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Posted By: terrylee
Date Posted: April 09 2018 at 11:47am
Well done! A very nice First World War bayonet. Now to look for a similar SMLE, preferably also made by Enfield. But please, if possible, not one that has been deactivated! 
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Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: April 09 2018 at 12:23pm
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Excellent! I'm glad your happy with what you got. As I mentioned in a previous post; I've bought stuff at the shop in Colchester and always had good service. It's a small shop, but crammed to the rafters with stuff. Well worth a visit if your in the area. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: sc-em
Date Posted: April 09 2018 at 1:14pm
| You're right. i just need to sort my FAC out and get a genuine shooter to match the bayonet. I have put some enquiries out to see where I may get one once I have passed my shooting club probation and got the Fire Arms Certificate. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: April 10 2018 at 8:31pm
| congrats - a fine piece and you will do fine on the rifle as well , you are asking all the right questions |