Print Page | Close Window

New to Enfields

Printed From:
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
Printed Date: March 25 2019 at 4:35am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 -

Topic: New to Enfields
Posted By: Traumahawk980
Subject: New to Enfields
Date Posted: July 26 2018 at 9:17pm
Greetings! Just joined the forum. I recently picked up a Savage built No4mk1. I would be grateful for any information anyone can give me about it. The SN is 91c0Xxxx, it is us property marked. The original No4Mk1* has a line through it. Above that is marked No4mk1/3(F) FTR and below is /53 91C0xxxx. The band above the trigger is marked 91C0xxxx with a “B” under it. There appears to be an arrow in a circle on the first barrel band and the end band is stamped only with a “B” the barrel is marked 303 US and with the CAI import mark. The bottom metal had what appears to be a backward 7 on it and the only visible marks on the stock is a “B” in a circle just behind the trigger. When disassembled, there is a bit of surface rust. Particularly where the butt stock attaches. There is rust spots with some minor pitting on the receiver itself. My question is do I have anything special that I should leave alone or would it be ok to clean and park the metal and clean, lightly sand, steam the dents out, and restain/blo the stock. I appreciate any input anyone can offer. Cheers!

Posted By: MJ11
Date Posted: July 28 2018 at 3:19pm
91C is a Savage number as I recall, I have 12C and 15C rifles.

Is there a US Property roll stamp on the upper surface on the left receiver wall?

The value is in the condition it is in now. It's your rifle but sanding and refinishing will diminish it's actual value. Cleaning and oiling the metal will not as will cleaning the wood with a mild soap and clean rags. Limited exposure to the sun will draw out oils from the wood that can be cleaned off. A  50/50 mix of BLO and turpentine rubbed into the wood in many thin coats will restore the wood and seal it. Please don't use a synthetic glossy finish.

Good luck

Welcome aboard !

The Spartans do not ask how many the enemies are but where they are

Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 28 2018 at 3:28pm
Welcome from Brandon, Manitoba, Canada!

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 28 2018 at 9:20pm
That backwards 7 is actually a broad arrow stamp.
The crossed out No4 Mk1* just means it went through a FTR, Factory Thorough Repair. Yours was reconditioned in 1953 from a Mk1 to a Mk1/3. The trigger is now hung off of a bracket soldered onto the butt socket as opposed to the trigger guard.

Welcome from Phoenix Arizona

This is also a Savage made No4Mk1* 1942. Serial number 73CXXX

Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 6:35am
its definetly a savage and it seems quite nice it my eyes 

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 8:26am
To answer your question. You have a rifle that is special to you and you alone. Clean it up,get rid of the rust, lightly oil it,and then go out and enjoy it.
Production ended after an estimated 1,090,223 rifles had been made by Savage. An additional 206,475 Enfield No.4 MK I* rifles were procured from the Long Branch, Canadian facility to supply United States’ Lend Lease program. 40,000 of the Enfields were Lend Leased to China and the rest went to Great Britain. After the Savage contract was terminated, surplus parts and raw materials from the contract were sold to Small Arms LTD. of Long Branch, Ontario, Canada.
Your particular rifle was refurbished at the Fazackerly plant in the early 50's. The master component,"the receiver" is definitely the original J.Stevens made part. If the original two groove barrel is still on it,good. Bottom line,do as you see fit.

Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 9:18am
Welcome to the site! I too have a 91 series Savage #4 and it is one of my very best shooting milsurps.

Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually

Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 9:59am
One thing to bare in mind.
'You can always restore it tomorrow but after that you can NEVER make it original EVER!!!'

Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.

Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 10:09am
Stanforth, correct me if I'm wrong.
It ceased being original once it went through the FTR in 1953. It did not leave the Chickopee plant with the trigger hung off of the butt socket nor did it have that forestock, originally. My 1944 Maltby went through the FTR in 1953 as well. To me,it's not original any longer. This rifle falls under that same category. Restore it to the condition it was when it left Fazackerly.

Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 10:37am
FTR was a normal part of a rifles service life. As an example you'd be hard-pressed to find a Brit made No1 MkIII that hadn't been FTR'd several times for instance. Frequently they were not just rebuilt, but upgraded as well during the FTR process.

The British were so "frugal" they didn't waste anything!

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 11:19am
Welcome aboard from Ontario.

Your rifle to do with as you wish, so not telling you what to do. But....

Some collectors pooh pooh rifles that have been through an FTR because they are no longer 'original'.

I myself will pick out the FTR rifle from the pile to check it out as I know that it has been through the factory and restored to 'as new' condition at that time. It is all part of that rifle's service history.

Some rifles were given an FTR then put directly into war stores only to be sold off later as surplus. Many of these civilian owned FTR rifles out there have been shot very little since their release and are still in like new condition, but also, some have been doing the rounds for generations and show it.

Depends as to what you want from your rifle. It will never be as it was when it first left the factory.
If you refinish it, it will only ever be a refinished rifle. Which is ok too, it is akin to doing bodywork and repainting a vintage car.
However, I don't even look at refinished rifles unless they are something super rare. A lot of collectors do the same.

For me, mechanical condition comes first, then pretty. 

Far too easy to over clean with the best intentions and destroy collector value. 

Gently but thoroughly clean. Remove the active rust, linseed oil the wood.
No sanding, no parking.

If you have a solid rifle, clean it and keep it oiled. It is wot it is.

If you want a pretty one, go find another and add it to the collection. :o)

Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!

Posted By: Stanforth
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 1:47pm
I agree.
It is usually less expensive to buy a rifle in better condition that mess about with the one you have. It will have more value and you won't have devalued the first one.

Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.

Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 3:40pm
In my humble opinion, in war time, when weapons can be refurbished and put back into action when worn out, doesn't make it less valuable. Agiain, in my opinion, a weapon that has seen enough service to need work then put back into service has a provenance. A patina. Somebody has fought with that rifle. To me, that's where the money and history is.

Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 5:24pm
To each - his own. (Then, theres paddy... )

Loose wimmen tightened here

Posted By: Pedro
Date Posted: July 29 2018 at 7:28pm
I totally agree. Clean it up as a soldier who had nothing better to do would have done in the past. But to refinish it in any invasive way would ruin it (perhaps not totally) for most and do nothing to increase it's value (probably the opposite). Of course if anything is broken internally and has to be replaced, then there's little choice and that's acceptable. The fact that it's been FTR'd is no biggie. As said above, as it's done in it's service life, then that's ok.
Or you could just paint it in realtree camo. LOL

Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 30 2018 at 5:43pm
it should be a nice one as its been brought to mk2 standard in that FTR , 

Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 -
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. -