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Unmarked Lee Speed

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9326
Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 7:41am
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Topic: Unmarked Lee Speed
Posted By: SteelFlint
Subject: Unmarked Lee Speed
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:31pm
Hey Gang,

Hoping to draw upon the combined knowledge on this board for yet another identification job lol.  I recently picked up the below Lee Speed - or perhaps Frankenrifle - and am new to Lees (former black rifle enthusiast, haven't picked up my AR since).  There are no markings that I can find, and looks like the wrist has been engraved over.  I am really keen on any history or insights that can be shared on this one.

I finally got around to tearing this down this eve and have the following pics to share below - I've magnified the proof marks where I could.  There are no other stampings nor insignias that I can locate; and certainly no serial number anywhere.  Any and all help appreciated!  Thx!




Top of the receiver:


Looks like I'm missing some components on the left.  Can anyone identify and suggest replacement options?  Assume the rifle is still safe to fire...


Interesting front sight post:


Rear express sight:


Close up of some engravings:


Ribbed trigger:


Inside the fore grip:


Bolt handle:


Bottom of receiver:



I'll try and get a better shot of the bolt stampings:


Only piece left is the dustcover, which I have yet to disassemble.  Perhaps the answer is underneath there... but must wait till after work tomorrow!

Super big thanks to all assistance!

Cheers.




Replies:
Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 1:21pm
The 'missing components' on the left hand side of the receiver are the rear long range volley sight arm and its spring. The fore arm wood is inlet for the arm in its stowed position.

The screw holes are often used to mount an aftermarket peep sight. eg Parker No.9 sight. 

The fact that the fore end has the volley inletting, and also has blanking pieces in the barrel channel just in front of the barrel reinforce where the military hand guard clips once would fit, suggest to me that this was at some time, a full length military fore stock that has been reworked for the sporter. I dont think that it is likely to be a genuine Lee Speed sporter item either.

So far, from what I can see, the rear sight assembly and butt stock seem to be the only factory sporter components, the rest are ex-military. The barrel has had material removed from the nock's form flat. Often in service, markings are put there . Can't tell if the barrel is ex-military or not (I'm thinking not) Are there ANY markings on the barrel anywhere?




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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 4:16pm
Thanks Englishman!!  Can't see any markings on the barrel at all... I'll try and pull the dust cover tonight.  Appreciate all of your help - again!

Oh well, thinking I overpaid but will have make up for it in the woods this fall...


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 6:27pm
Is it just me..or does some of the etching in the metal look like Kyber traits?

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 7:31pm
what a fun rifle , i have visited this thread three times , i keep coming back even tho im not really into the sporters i find them very interesting , 


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 10:11pm
Hmmm what are Kyber traits?

I only know about Kyber crystals lol!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 10:23pm
Khyber Pass, right.  Hmmm.. interesting theory!  I’ve seen Khyber Copies and they are generally very rough.  The engravings on mine however do not look rushed at all... but will google some more.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 6:40am
Very nice rifle you have aquired. Hope it shoots as well as it looks...


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 6:41am
haha, not Khyber for sure.

I dont think that you overpaid if you like the rifle and get use out of it. I did take a look at it when it was up for sale and the owner at that time and I chatted about it. 

I was considering getting it and then remounting the barrel on a commercial BSA receiver that I have in the bins. But since finished rifle would look exactly as it does now, there was little point in the exercise, never mind the cost.



Here are three 'Lee Speed' style rifles (not mine, not my pic, but I can dream) all built around the turn of the century by bespoke gun makers in .375 flanged nitro express. These are true safari rifles, good for elephants or lions. None of them are 'factory' or have much in the way of markings.
Any one of these would command a price tag of $3-4K.

So be happy with that little beauty that you bought, you did good!



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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 7:01am
I also don't think you over paid. Very nice rifle. Is your plan to complete the project and shoot this rifle? I would!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 9:02am
Thanks gents... really appreciate all the feedback!  This is my first Lee and I was feeling like I rushed into it without proper research - just needed proper second opinions from entirely disinterested parties and I got that here!  Smile

Hmm what would be needed to 'finish' the project?  I was thinking about replacing the front sight blade with a brass dot version, and was about to field this idea to the board just in case I'm breaking Lee decorum or doing something sacrilegious lol... It's a good sight picture, but the current black/steel post is very difficult to discern in anything other than perfect lighting conditions.

That volley sight cavity is also bugging me a bit: on the fence as to locating a new fore end, or just picking up a Parker Hale 5 or 9 and get better accuracy in the meantime...

All opinions and ideas welcome!

Cheers. 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 11:21am
Good luck finding a No9.
I've been looking fir a while for one for my ShtLE without success. Oddly enough you may be aided by the older rifle as the No9's were not to common on a No1 MkIII
No5A is a better bet.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 11:24am
Hahaa thx.  Yeah I've not come across many No9 ads at all



Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 11:41am
My two cents worth... I would replace front and rear sight with a modern Williams. Rear would be adjustable for elevation, front would have a sight hoop for protection. I would then add a front barrel band sling swivel, install a butt stock swivel and put a 1" leather sling on it. Prior to this, I would remove the old furniture finish, leave all dings and dents, and refinish with boiled linseed oil. The hardware, I work  and refinish with Oxfo Blue. Again, my humble opinion, but I would be proud to take that to the range and out hunting.


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 12:04pm
Thanks Honkytonk! I have my Christmas task now I think - wife will have to get in line is she still wants the washrooms repainted muhahaaa.

Hear you on the sights... front one is going as soon as I find proper replacements on Numrich (any other supplier recos?).

One last request to the community - almost embarrassed to ask - what I've got is a No4 Mark I correct?

Thanks!


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 12:44pm
If you were to muck about changing sights on an original antique Lee Enfield, you might ruffle some feathers, yes. However, there is nothing original to this rifle. It has been built from parts  by somebody with some skills, at some unknown time and place. 

Have at her and modify to suit you and your shooting. Normally, I dont touch the patina on old metalwork, but in this case, I would likely slow rust blue to make her pretty again.

If the volley arm inletting bugs you that much, a common rework was to cut it out and patch. If done right with matching grain walnut, it would be all but invisible.



This is a much modified martial rifle that had the volley arm inlets removed from both wood and metal.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 12:58pm
Thx Englishman.. damn didn't even occur to me that yes I can indeed have the wood cut out and patched.  Hmm might go this route, them Parker Hales are like a couple hundred bucks.  I'll see about a quote from my local gunsmith.  Wouldn't mind getting the entire thing checked over anyway before first shots.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 1:55pm
I'm not sure of Canadian prices but its about US$350 this side of the border for a matching numbers with mount & screws, springs & lock washer!
Then you'll (of Course) need this little gem as well!

The "Protective sight cover"
*sigh* I don't have that either!
Cry


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 3:20pm
From what I've read, a Lee Speed rifle was, and even if original, a Sporter. Possibly the first sporter. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm correct, any after market alteration is acceptable. I've always read, and agree, wether a military rifle or massed produced hunting rifle, the first thing you modify, to begin the process of making it a shooter, is the sites. Be it open, or scope. 


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 3:22pm
Damn it I knew I opened up a can o worms!  Ignorance was bliss but now that I know these toys exist... Hey you only need one kidney to survive right?  Lol.

I have to say that sight cover is super cool - and I've not come across one before.  I wants.




Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 6:24am
Its the ONLY one I've ever seen too.
Like you say I can manage on one kidney!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 6:32am
My thoughts on this were also stated by Honky-tonk above;
This is a sporting rifle and wouldn't be quite right with the target aperture fitted.
I'd leave the sights alone as well, apart from cleaning up, And, I'd not re-blue, as it will lose its history.
This is just my ideas on it, and we all think differently, so just adding this as food for thought before you get out the refurb kit!
If you Do work on the wood, a linseed finish is best, and also If you do work on it, you could always reduce the thick foreend to more of a "Lee-Speed" style.
You will not find a fore-end that will justvgo right on, as the barrel is not the same as the later marks, with cut-outs and such.    the Long Lee foreend is closest, and not easy to find.
 
Best,
R.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 8:38am
I think you could justify the folding "Match" sight on a rifle, folded for "field use" & use the issue sights instead, but unfolded for target use.

Oohh look one just popped up on e-pay!
Evil SmileCensored
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estate-Auction-Parker-Model-9G-Long-lee-Enfield-target-sight/302941427479?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estate-Auction-Parker-Model-9G-Long-lee-Enfield-target-sight/302941427479?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 8:44am
RSAF Enfield and Sparkbrook were government owned and run factories. BSA and LSA were private owned companies who made rifles for the government under contract.

The Govt allowed BSA and LSA manufacture rifles of Enfield design for sale to the public through the gun trade. As a licenced product, the rifles had to carry patent acknowledgements. Both BSA and LSA made full military spec arms for sale to militia and volunteer groups. They also made sporting versions, which now in common parlance are known as Lee Speeds, whether or not they are marked as such.

However, one can find a full spec military rifle marked Lee Speed too, so the term is not limited to sporters.

I have a officer's carbine that displays four patent banners, a Lee Speed patent on the metal at the wrist, a Penn Deeley patent on the bolt head, a BSA patent on the sliding safety catch and a Rigby patent on the nose cap.
So I could call my Lee Speed a 'Lee Speed Penn Deeley Rigby BSA'. Wacko

The first sporters were Lee Metfords built upon the Mk.I action. There were not many made.. Since they pre-date the Speed improvements technically, they are not a Lee Speed even though they look much the same.


This is not my rifle, but I wants..my precious...




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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 8:57am
Lol I'd like to see your "LSPDRB" Franken-carbine!

Thanks Shamu... hopefully I'm not competing with you on this auction - soooo want it!

Not sure I will re-blue my rifle neither; really liking the 100 yr old patina and relishing the ability to shoot/hunt with a true antique.  It is a century anniversary this year for WWI after all.

My fore grip is definitely not original - on closer inspection the checkering is not nearly as refined as the buttstock (good eye Englishman) - so might do the linseed oil treatment that seems to be the consensus here.

Will tear down the dust cover tonight and see what's underneath...



Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 9:15am
Hey Englishman... thanks for the pic.  Actually been meaning to ask precisely what No/Mark/action mine is.

So I definitely have a Mag Lee Metford / Long Lee Enfield Mark I?

Hey dumb question number 2: how do I properly count the grooves in my barrel?  Kinda just look like swirls to me, with a helping of vertigo to boot hahahaaa




Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 3:26pm
Shot the rifle today at the range.  WOW.  Not a romantic to believe in love at first sight - and indeed this is more like love at first shot - but damn I friggin love it.  Super visceral rifle to shoot and I can imagine it takes some practice and training to properly handle and use to its maximum potential.  

Glad I came here guys.  Keeping this thing for life!!!

Cheers.


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by SteelFlint SteelFlint wrote:

So I definitely have a Mag Lee Metford / Long Lee Enfield Mark I?

Yes. Your receiver could have once been on either an MLM Mk.II/II* or an MLE Mk.I/I*. Exactly the same receiver forgings, just different barrels and bolts.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 6:20pm
LSPDRB Officers' carbine for use with bayonet.




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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 10 2018 at 6:34pm
Nice!



Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:06am
Almost don’t want to molest the stock/barrel with sling studs/swivels but I need a better way to carry it for sure.  Going to try and find vintage appropriate MLM II it MLE I versions I think.  Don’t want anything “new” on Victoria (yes that what I’m calling her lol) that’s not period correct ha.

Still getting used to the open sights but can’t wait for my next practice day!  Anyone try the Hornsby Vintage Match stuff?  $45 for 20s around my parts but looks quality...

Cheers.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:36am
Check out Black-powder slings. Many used laces, pockets & so on instead of sling swivels.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:50am
Yes I was thinking a similar rig to older (lol) fixed stock M16s, a series of loops and contraptions. Didn't realize such things as black powder slings even existed lol.

Damn Shamu why do you keep showing me stuff I didn't know existed but now desperately wants?!!  Guess that's what I come here for!!!  :)

Must go look for one now.  One interesting observation from yesterday is that the barrel heats up pretty quick, and once it does she also mirages very noticeably.  Guess I never noticed this from years of shooting ARs due to the elevated sight stance - but a mirage strap/wider sling or black powder strap is going to be inevitable I think.

Hey Happy Remembrance Day everyone!  Feeling good to blast the Lee yesterday, thank god I didn't have to kill nobody with it like our forefathers did!

Cheers.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 9:01am
"Damn Shamu why do you keep showing me stuff I didn't know existed but now desperately wants?!!  Guess that's what I come here for!!!  :)"
Its a Dark, Wet, Lonely job. But someone has to do it!
Evil Smile

Try"Track of The Wolf.com". They have lots of this stuff at good prices.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/55/1



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 9:30am
And efforts totally appreciated!!  I was eyeing this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estate-Auction-Long-Lee-Enfield-MLE-MkI-303-mid-band-and-rear-sling-swivel/302949835538?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estate-Auction-Long-Lee-Enfield-MLE-MkI-303-mid-band-and-rear-sling-swivel/302949835538?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

But will go with Track o' the Wolf instead.  Customization/modification free, plus the suede edition is $16 so the price is definitely right!

Thank man. Again. And Again. And Again.  Eh.  


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 4:00pm
"My work here is done"!
Hug
BWHAHAHaHahaha!
https://www.stateofdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/sunset-750.png


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:06pm
Think I just bought a U.S. manufacture P17...

The Lee contagion begins!!!!


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:26pm
Is there no marks on the stock where an eyelet was once fitted, Flintsteel?  (for a hook and sling)
 
If not, it was maybe used in Africa, where slings were not much used. 
"African carry" means by the barrel over the shoulder. :-)
 
Sham,
That contraption you just showed is Bl**dy Awful!
 
Go write 500 lines,   "I must not show crap!".


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 11 2018 at 8:40pm
Hahaaaaa I dunno I have something similar in Elk for my winchester levers, they do the job.

There are no eyelets fitted to the stock.. at least no signs that the wood was filled in after the fact.  The fore end appears chopped for it's original full length I think (checkering is different from the rear stock).  But the buttstock has no signs any sling swivels/studs were ever mounted...

I like Africa.  Maybe lions were shot with it in its past lol!


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 6:29am
Originally posted by SteelFlint SteelFlint wrote:

Think I just bought a U.S. manufacture P17...

The Lee contagion begins!!!!

SteelFlint, you have the affliction.

The only cure for Enfielditis is to take large doses of Enfields in all forms and calibers! I prescribe one of each model.

I myself am to be found looking wistfully at the early Remington Lees and searching the auction sites figuring if I can swing it to buy one. I recently passed on a cheap and faded side break single shot Lee offered up to me cheap, but as I was only considering collecting the magazine rifles, I didnt buy. Doh!!! the one that got away cos I was stupid!!!! Turns out that it was very early production and there were only a handful made, the last one know sold went at auction for over 20k. Doubt if I will ever have another chance to add one of those to my collection. 

I have my heart set on a Remington Lee 1885. Got a pic of one on the fridge door. She will be mine......


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 6:51am
Whut?
(It could be MUCH worse)

http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/products/US-Cavarly-Carbine-sling-and-clip-050416-3.JPG


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 8:17am
Hahaaa thx for that pic Shamu, great morning laugh lol!  All good, bought a Track o' Wolf edition, $25CAD shipped to my door.  I'm not prepared to punch holes and weld stuff to mine yet.

Hey question: what is more collectable, an RCMP issued Long Branch No4, or an original BSA Commercial No1 with Fulton markings/match tuned?

Bought the M1917... it's Winchester marked, looks like 9/1918 production date so probably never went to France, but hey it's an "American" Enfield - and 100yrs old so right up my alley.



Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 8:36am
Probably the commercial BSA / Fultons all thing being equal.
The "Regulated By Fultons" stamp is worth a premium.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by englishman_ca englishman_ca wrote:


I have my heart set on a Remington Lee 1885. Got a pic of one on the fridge door. She will be mine......

I'm going to pick up Skinnerton's book.  Seems to be like Tobin's Spirit Guide for all things Enfield.

Had no idea Remington made them way back in the day!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 10:12am
I have a hunting buddy that never uses a sling. Rifle, shotgun, carries everything over his shoulder by the barrel.


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 11:11am
Flintsteel,
 
Of the two, the Fulton tuned!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 1:07pm
On it... buddy wants big $$ tho


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 2:51pm
Yup it'll fetch a premium.
But the "Fultons Regulated" guns were highly prized match rifles.
Just never ask what they did & how they did it. I was there when they "sorted out" a barrel of mine that was misbehaving.

I felt like I was watching Vulcan forge Mjolinir! Scary as all get out, but it worked!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/77/55/ca7755f257086843d07e81aa7974c110.jpg



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 7:24pm
"...Bought the M1917... it's Winchester marked, looks like 9/1918 production date so probably never went to France, but hey it's an "American" Enfield - and 100yrs old so right up my alley..." 

dont be so sure these served in WWII as well and were offered as aid after the war to so many places you never know where it might have gone , 

congrats n another great purchase , 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 7:30pm


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 8:12pm
Nice the flaming bomb!  The Winchester has a few acceptance eagles too, I’ll share pics when it arrives!  

Looks too good in pics to have seen the frontlines anywhere, but you are right these were used till Garands came late war so perhaps she has done service for freedom and peace.  Alas, this one I intend to shoot regularly as well.  The seller told me he hasn’t fired it in 30 years!

Hey how do folks feel about em RF .22 trainers?  Thinking of picking one up for the range, much cheaper to operate!


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 4:19am
I have Lee Enfield trainers in .22LR. we use them for the Service trainng rifle competitions.
They are great fun!
I took the No2 MkIV* to the range on Saturday as I wanted to shoot at the Remembrance weekend and our full bore range is still closed for work. So the No2 rifle was a good option.
It is basically a Lithgow made No1 mkIII* .303 that was re-barrelled in .22LR just after WWII.
When these were modified they became the No2MkIV* rifle. Visually identical with full wood and bayonnet fitting's etc; but a single shot. The magazine is empty and collects the used brass when cycling the bolt.
You do sometimes get some funny looks when pulling it out of the case on the small bore range!


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 7:00pm
for what its worth that remington served in canada 


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 7:04pm


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I have Lee Enfield trainers in .22LR. we use them for the Service trainng rifle competitions.
They are great fun!
...
You do sometimes get some funny looks when pulling it out of the case on the small bore range!

I'm looking for one!  .303 too expensive to shoot regularly and I do not reload.  Done spent all my $ on guns lol.

I don't really respect .22s (yes still lethal with the correct placement) but then if I'm going there might as well do it in style!  




Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

for what its worth that remington served in canada 

Nice one.  Yeah if I could only find a Lee-Fulton that's also served in Canada... jackpot for sure!  I just recognized the C-broad arrow.  Wasn't aware we used M1917s here.  Learn something new everyday.



Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 10:31pm
Does anyone know what the markings "FF" mean on an Enfield?  Like FF110.

Thx


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 4:32am
Could be Irish ownership ,Fienne Faille (think that's the correct spelling)


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 7:22am
Yep its Gaelic for "Irish property"
They were given to the Irish Free State, but as many arms were vanishing into the  IRA they wanted them to be traceable so the "FF" stamps (Oglich na Eireinn stamp)  They were re-marked by the British at Enfield lock. This occurred because at the time of the formation the Irish Free State was still supplying arms to the IRA in Northern Ireland and the MOD wanted to be able to trace any arm supplied to the Free State. That is why the script is larger then normal and of a different font!



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 9:47am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Yep its Gaelic for "Irish property"

... That is why the script is larger then normal and of a different font!

Check!  Thanks Shamu... I did not mention the "FF110" was in different font, and it is so indeed!!

Inscription rides atop a 4 digit serial.  It's interesting though as the rifle in question is branded BSA, and not EFD/RSAF.

I recognize Sinn Fein, but not Fianna Fail... that's it I'm picking up Skennerton's book on Amazon like right now!!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 1:07pm
Sinn Fein is the (legal) political manifestation of the Provisional IRA, an illegal terrorist organization.

Origins, Irish Volunteers

Óglach, the singular of óglaigh, comes from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Irish_language" rel="nofollow - Old Irish word óclach, meaning a young male. The phrase Óglaigh na hÉireann was coined as an Irish-language title for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Volunteers" rel="nofollow - Irish Volunteers of 1913, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-9" rel="nofollow - [9] and it was retained when the Volunteers became known in English as the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army" rel="nofollow - Irish Republican Army (IRA) during the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence" rel="nofollow - War of Independence of 1919–1922.

Irish Republican Army

The name has also been used by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_known_as_the_Irish_Republican_Army" rel="nofollow - several other paramilitary groups calling themselves the Irish Republican Army since 1920. These groups each claim to be the sole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_republican_legitimatism" rel="nofollow - legitimist modern successors to the original Irish Volunteers and Irish Republican Army, and they have refused to recognise the authority of (variously) the Defence Forces, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland" rel="nofollow - Northern Ireland and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland" rel="nofollow - Republic of Ireland ; as such, each of these groups claims the sole right to use the name Óglaigh na hÉireann. Such groups have included the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army" rel="nofollow - Provisional IRA , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-10" rel="nofollow - [10] the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army" rel="nofollow - Continuity IRA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-11" rel="nofollow - [11] and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army" rel="nofollow - Real IRA . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-12" rel="nofollow - [12]

Since the 2000s, some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissident_republican" rel="nofollow - dissident republican groups have begun using Óglaigh na hÉireann as their primary title in both Irish- and English-language contexts. These include a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann_%28CIRA_splinter_group%29" rel="nofollow - Continuity IRA splinter group , first reported on by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Monitoring_Commission" rel="nofollow - Independent Monitoring Commission in 2006, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-13" rel="nofollow - [13] and a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann_%28Real_IRA_splinter_group%29" rel="nofollow - Real IRA splinter group which began claiming responsibility for attacks in 2009.

A suppression order made by the Irish state in June 1939 under the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offences_against_the_State_Acts_1939%E2%80%931998" rel="nofollow - Offences Against the State Act 1939 stated that "the organisation styling itself the Irish Republican Army (also the I.R.A. and Oglaigh [sic] na hÉireann)" was to be considered an unlawful organisation within the context of the Act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93glaigh_na_h%C3%89ireann#cite_note-14" rel="nofollow - [14]




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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 8:44pm
Nice thx Sham... hmm an Enfield with possible IRA lineage... might have to start a new thread.

Just impulse bought a Walther KKJ!  Closest Lee trainer I can find around these parts are still $$$.  Not sure of the date of mfg - hopefully 50's lol - but I intend to shoot the crap out of this bolt action.

It's ironic, I'm really liking bolt-ers way more than I did my black rifles...




Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 9:40pm
This one needs a new home...


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 14 2018 at 9:49pm
Oh man she’s super nice but I’m in beaver country!  It's likely ITAR restricted...

Thx


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 6:17am
What Is the process for getting firearms sent up over the border into Canada?
 
(Apart from chucking them from a safe distance!)
Steelflint,
 
Not likely your rifle has IRA connections, just Irish.  And if I had one, I'd Prefer it that way!


Posted By: englishman_ca
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 6:26am
Steelflint, some paperwork involved, but for a broker fee, it is simple, just not cheap. 

Go check out irunguns.com, they deliver to your door.


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Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 6:51am
Don't forget the HUGE gulf between the IRA & the PIRA, its a chalk & cheese thing.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Pukka Bundook Pukka Bundook wrote:

 
 
Not likely your rifle has IRA connections, just Irish.  And if I had one, I'd Prefer it that way!

Agreed!!  Don't have it yet though.  It is all numbers matching, low 4 digit BSA.  I also do not see any export markings... maybe it come across the MayFlower back in the day lol.


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 6:29pm
Picked up my KKJ today.. 32xxx serial so '57-'58 vintage.  Really happy about this considering I went in sight unseen, and this handy lil rifle is in good shape after 60yrs.  Bolt throw is much shorter than a Lee, and of course she cocks on open, but sights work identical and I hope this to be a good trainer.

Alright sorry for the tangent... back to Lees!


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 8:04pm
sounds a nice one show us some photos - we have wide interest here but come together on the lee enfields of course , 


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 9:03pm
Damn just packed it in the safe.. but yes will do!

Need you gents' help on something else tho - new identification mystery lol:
https://www.enfield-rifles.com/topic9342_post100690.html#100690" rel="nofollow - https://www.enfield-rifles.com/topic9342_post100690.html#100690


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 9:55pm
The Walther KKJ, circa 1957-58:






Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: November 15 2018 at 11:26pm
That looks like a very fine rifle. Great condition.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 16 2018 at 6:10am
Not  A Walther, but I have a Hungarian training rifle in .22 single shot.
Barrel is Heavy for a .22.
Will say no more as it's OT. 
(I Do like that Walther though! )


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 16 2018 at 7:46am
Local gun shop here has an Isreali Mauser in .22LR.. but asking like $800 I believe.  Nice but it’s a big rifle for a trainer i think.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 16 2018 at 5:47pm
very nice , well worth investing in , 


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 16 2018 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

very nice , well worth investing in , 

The Mauser?  I took a look, the receiver is badly pitted but does have a Winchester barrel.  It's fair condition and single shot only.  Not my cup of tee.




Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 19 2018 at 10:27pm
each to their own , you do have the advantage of actually seeing her up close and personal - buy only what you like to avoid regrets , 


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 25 2018 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Whut?
(It could be MUCH worse)


Track O the Wolf came through today - despite our Canuck Postal Strike - and this is pretty much what I was hoping for:



Thanks Sham!  Sling problem solved with zero rifle/hardware intrusion!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 6:10am
TOTW has all sorts of nice stuff.
I just wish the website was a tad easier to navigate.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 8:15am
Steelflint,
 
You could have made that from the top of a winter boot...   :-)


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: November 26 2018 at 12:57pm
Yeah but the wife probably wouldn't be too happy afterwards lol!


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: February 24 2019 at 12:01pm
Hey hey, digging up an old thread, but thought I'd share what's become my regular shootin' Lee over the recent months.

I did manage to secure a PH9 sight - fills the volley void perfectly - and mounting screws from Scott Stonehill who was awesome to deal with.  Slowly climbing up the distance-accuracy chart but very confident out to 200m these days.  

Thanks again for all the help gents! 










Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 24 2019 at 12:03pm
That is a gorgeous rifle!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: SteelFlint
Date Posted: February 25 2019 at 8:18pm
Thanks Canuck!  Yes makes me feel like Val Kilmer huntin' lions every time I shoot it lol!


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 26 2019 at 1:03pm
Scott is great to deal with, agreed. He supplied the screws for my AG Parker No9 sight as well. That is fitted to my No1 MkIII*.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 26 2019 at 1:08pm
I ordered some Parker Hale TZ-4/47 screws and a few #4/MK2 rear transverse screws and the service was exemplary and the parts top shelf.

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 26 2019 at 2:51pm
As the kids now a days say, that site looks "steam punk"! Love it!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 27 2019 at 7:23am
Yes very Steampunk, I'm looking for one of those for my SMLE!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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